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Creating a future for the Tohaa with a Sectorial

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by Cothel, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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  2. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I just don't get, why you have to spread discomfort in each and every single thread about the future of Tohaa or Spiral Corps in general, no matter how positive the tone of the topic was meant to be.
    This time around, it was very positive.
    The headline “Creating a future for Tohaa [...]“ semantically spreads positive vibes and hope all over the place, indicating that this thread is meant to be about the good things Spiral Corps its subsequent changes might bring to us.
    But wait! Old Kenobi comes in, Bad-Mood-Spitfire in hand, ready to e irrational, ranting all over the place and crushing the party: “No positivity on my watch!“, he says, popping new players balloons filled with fun, joy and interest in Tohaa.

    On a personal note, I think you should really work on your attitude.
    That aside, all the ranting you do really is really bad for every positive conversation and might indeed drive new players away from buying into Tohaa and thus reducing the likelyhood of Tohaa getting more love (read “content“) from CB in the future.

    I do understand that there is a time and a place for dissatisfaction, yet, this thread is not the place for it. There are some “negative“ threads about the future of Tohaa already. Feel free to be negative about our faction there, but please stop ranting around in other threads, since at least I enjoy reading and participating in those positive threads as well as the discussions about the usefulness of the new units in Vanilla and Spiral Corps.


    Best regards,
    an OrderMonkey
     
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  3. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    You are right, I shouldn't have post here, therefore I'm out.
    I've thought I wrote more objective and less negativ then it seems to appear.

    Try to make a own post about what will be viable for Tohaa from Spiral with a more positive approach.
     
  4. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    That was completly unnecessary, he is just giving his opinions and counter arguments regarding the new profiles and their place in vanilla Tohaa.
     
  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Mate, why is a Sukeul in that matchup? Use a Gao-Rael spitfire. It's a better gun in our existing meta environment where everything has mimetism anyway.

    Look how much better this is - a Gao-Rael improves on a Sukeul massively thanks to the positive interaction with Low-Vis rather than a negative one. And it gets even better against things like Tanko, Dakinis, or TR REMs.

    If you can't be happy with a 47% vs 26% matchup against literally the best overwatch piece in the game right now*, you can't be happy.



    *noting that the Haidao in Invincibles is actually an incredible sleeper hit, trading out a Kamau's mimetism for extra resilience. Invincibles players are cottoning onto this kinda slowly because everyone was obsessed with the 16-order link team at release, but Haidao are going to be up there alongside the Kamau real soon if they aren't already. And you still want a Gao-Rael through a stratuscloud to take that fight until we get a way to generate a saturation zone without any visibility penalty.
     
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  6. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    In honesty I feel like I'm jumping on you a bit more than I should. I assume english is your second or third language, right? Some things are really hard to communicate in this silly bastard tongue we're speaking. I'll take your word that you didn't mean to be as negative as you came off.
     
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  7. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    I read things like that constantly, even in the current meta without Stratocloud was introduced. It seems like the Gao-Rael Spitfire is the go-to shooty boy in Tohaa now.
    This lead to me struggling which unit to include each an every time I am building my lists for ITS play.
    Is the loss of range and mimitism really worth it, though? Especially since you also lose D-Charges and some move value. What do you guys think?

    With Stratocloud, I will certainly give it a shot. Right now I am inclined to go with the good old Sukeul HMG.

    Edit: Fixed quotation
     
  8. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    As the person who started this thread I am ok with @Ben Kenobi posting however he likes here. Not only him but others as well (as long as it's not Tohaa hate speech). As someone who has posted negative doom and gloom posts/threads around here I can completely empathize with what they are feeling. I also have a little bit of that same feeling in my gut.

    However, I am really getting excited with the new Spiral Corps units, the depth in fluff it is creating for the Tohaa, and all the new people who are posting in the Tohaa section of the forums. Even though they are NA2, I kinda hope that Spiral Corps just blends into this section of the forums. Anyone who has been here the last few years knows we could use more people giving this place life.

    Really this topic was supposed to be about how CB could tweak things to make it look less bleak for those of us who love our Tohaa. I never see them being removed from Infinity because they are too integral to how the Human Sphere got involved with aliens in general. I'm hoping this is just a way to give CB a little breathing room so they can figure out how they want to handle the Tohaa in the future. There is no reason there cannot be more Tohaa. The main gate has been lost, but there is no reason there cannot be another gate in another part of the Human Sphere, or even Tohaa coming from the Combined Army gate. With that being said, if they do discontinue the Tohaa as an army at some point in the future I'll be pissed. But for now I'm just glad I got my optimism back at least for a little while.
     
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  9. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    I too have every old Tohaa model that CB has made, And I aim prepared if CB dumps them all together, Tell me! what will you do if you lost all your out of production Thoaa model do to some uneen accident, and it's now one year or longer after the stopping of the productions of Tohaa, and can't find any old Tohaa model at all? I take it you was not around when CB had the bugs in CA?
     
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  10. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    That exactly what this is imho...
    It's Tohaa V2.1 under a very safe NA2 shelter.
    And it's getting lots of attention... I'm buying Tohaa and I never would have... So it's working
     
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  11. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    You're conflating two completely different cases. An MRRF one, where some of the SKUs went away and some more were still available (and all profiles were still in play) with the one where Exrah were not onli discontinued as a whole, but also were removed from play completely.

    I was around during that time, lurking around the game, but I started buying Infinity much later (at the time of N3 and CAD Ariadna releases).

    If all my Tohaa die in a fire, I'll proxy with existing Tohaa / others if I want to rebuild the army. Hunt them down on ebay / FLGS shelves / second hand market. They weren't removed from the game.
     
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  12. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I liked all of your post except this piece of analysis. ;)

    The decreased AVA of Clipsos/Igao and the lack of a Kotail and lack of a cheap active turn killer like the Libertos make this a bit tricker for a shellgame strat. Vanilla Tohaa have a lot of really wonderful options with the addition of the Taagma to be a tricky son of a gun that you never quite know whats happening where.
     
  13. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    One more point why I think it's a matter of time for old Tohaa, Some people on the forum had complained that old Tohaa was too OP, (IMO) what better way to fix old Tohaa, take them away and bring them back later with the new fixes, Or they could not bring them back not at all.
     
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  14. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Not disagreeing that vanilla tohaa can be tricksy, but when all is said and down Spiral is only down one Clipsos (from 3 to 2), has the same Igao AVA, higher Kiuutan AVA with trickier profiles, some very attractive minelayers in th Draal, and Helots and holoprojector1 troops in the DZ.

    However you're right about the Kotail which I sort of discounted (they've never meshed with me personally). Also pertinent is that vanilla tohaa have a great deal better smoke to go with their mirrors.

    I think I stand by my take, noting it is just a hunch/feeling at this point. Definately need to see how the links come together etc etc.
     
  15. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    Thats more than fair and you're right in that Spiral can definitely play a tricky game. My personal preference is just towards Vanilla for it but I also tend to play into some specific styles for my shell games that I am sure are not everyone's cup of tea.
     
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  16. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a humble Raktorak serving others.

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    That is strange to me. The unit's models are very new yet they're gone just like that.
    @prophet of doom You seem to be doing the opposite of your username. Being a voice of hope in this troubled Tohaa time.
     
  17. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Hey OrderMonkey, I wanted to give you a response to this since it's a really good question.

    I did a lot of testing in the run up to CanCon (Australian nationals) last year/early this year and ultimately settled on the Gao-Rael as my active firepower piece of choice. This was based on a few things:
    1. forward deployment on medium infantry overcame the previous issue with the Spitfire, which was having to maneuver to get into a good range band. Now the Gao-Rael starts usually in range to shoot in the same order it starts moving.
    2. there are now a lot of very powerful linkable models in the game with mimetism that I expected to be popular, in particular including Kamau, Dakinis and Veteran Kazaks. Especially against the Kamau, the Sukeul's mimetism is useless but the Gao-Rael's MSV is very useful.
    3. The Gao-Rael is a tiny bit cheaper (hey, it matters)
    4. I take multiple Preceptors, meaning the Gao-Rael can easily smoke-shoot unlinked enemy models
    5. The Gao-Rael is more robust than the Sukeul, since the Sukeul loses mimetism when it loses symbioarmour
    Now, none of these mean the Sukeul isn't a great active turn piece - it's extremely good and my preference for the Gao-Rael is the product of personal experience in my local conditions. If you have and like the Sukeul or especially if you are playing scenarios that want D-charges then by all means go for it. However, as spoiled the Stratocloud is potentially very powerful with the Gao-Rael, and especially against pieces like the Kamau again you really do not want to be taking that low-vis penalty yourself.

    Finally, it's worth noting that there's a distinct third option: not taking a high-burst active turn SWC weapon at all! Tohaa can play a totally viable short range firepower / melee / smoke game thanks to the strength of eclipse, banking only on snipers for long range ARO and not worrying about trying to engage fully linked enemies in active turn. This is actually one of my favourite ways to play, although generally it's probably a good idea to have more tactical options than fewer.

    Hope that helps! TLDR: Sukeul is still really good, take her if you like her. :)
     
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  18. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    I don't play Tohaa but I would be angry at CB if your doomy predictions are right, the Tohaa faction is removed and thus many models from the Tohaa range would become not usable anymore. Simply because it would be unfair to the people who bought the models.
     
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  19. OrderMonkey

    OrderMonkey Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the right-up, it's much appreciated. My “lokal“ meta certainly has plenty of Mimitism and even TO:Camo/ODD so it would probably be pretty useful.

    As far as the full on melee Tohaa approach goes, I've never really tried it, I guess I lack a second Preceptor and two Makauls anyway.

    I'll be testing the Gao-Rael Spitfire (and Armand) this weekend against a friend. Hope he'll do good.
     
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  20. perseus

    perseus Angry Clown

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    What i dont like in spiral corps is .. eh the name. ? wasnt it could be a good idea like
    Tohaa Heresy
    Triumvirate Intelligence Agency etc.
    On the other hand i can see that sectorial is full with many options which only few sectorials can match. most of the others we havent seen yet. Even this is enough for me to think about tohaa vanilla is over. "which is sad issue"
     
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