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Counting Range to Marked Targets

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Stompburger, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. Stompburger

    Stompburger Member

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    If you want to use an ability on a Marked target, how do you count the range? Do you need to take blocked and occupied spaces into account for abilities with a :L: range?

    For example:
    I want to use the Contender attack on a target that is marked. Defender has a range of :L:1-8. Because the target is marked, I do not need to have LOS. But I do need to be within range 1-8. My question is: do I need to be within range :L:1-8, or range :SL:1-8? Can I count 8 spaces to the target through Blocked spaces and spaces with characters, or no?

    Another example:
    :.: is attacker
    :J: is target (who has the Marked state)
    :L: are unoccupied spaces
    :-: are blocked spaces
    The attack has range :L:1-3. Can :.: attack :J:?

    :L::L::L::L::L::L::L:
    ...:L::L::L::-::L::L:
    :L::.::L::-::J::L::L:
    ...:L::L::L::-::L::L::L:
    :L::L::L::L::L::L::L:

    (edit: changed "is marked" to "has the Marked state" for clarity)
     
    #1 Stompburger, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  2. krotos

    krotos Well-Known Member
    Warcor Aristeia

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    yep, yellow can attack marked.
     
    -V- and Croepoek like this.
  3. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    Of course, you take your position as starting point and count hexagons to your target, taking the shortest route, it doesn't matter if the spaces in between are empty, blocked, or occupied, this isn't going to determine LoS, this is to determine if a target is within range of an ability.
    Floomby 18-04-2019 004006.png
    Once you know a target is within range, then you take into account if the ability is :L: or :SL: to check if you also need LoS to the target, or if the target is :J:marked, you assume it doesn't.

    Edit: My bad, rules in hand, you actually check if the ability need LoS first, and then you check range. Although you still need both (LoS and range) in case of :L: so I don't think it actually matters.
     
    #3 treiral, Apr 18, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
    Croepoek likes this.
  4. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    @treiral that’s wrong. From the range rule: :L: Range measurements must avoid both Occupied and Blocked spaces.

    I suggest that range to a Marked target should be measured for :SL: instead.
     
  5. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    True, but it doesn't make sense when you take into account the effects of :J:Marked, nobody plays it like that, and it's very clear that wasn't the intent of how range works, so I purposely ignore it. Otherwise, the example of @Stompburger above wouldn't be in range, since it would need to go all around the blocked spaces according to the first point:
    Floomby 18-04-2019 143359.png
    It would mean that in the example for :L:range, the target is at range :L:6 (since you have to avoid blocked spaces), even if there is no need for LoS check and it's just at :SL:3.

    In turn, this would nerf the :J:Marked status to pretty much useless.
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    Right, which is why:
    But this:
    Is simply wrong, and will give incorrect range measurements for abilities with :L: Ranges.
     
  7. treiral

    treiral Midnight poster

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    Sorry it could a while to answer, I was trying but in the end I just couldn't think of any case in which the :L:range measure, in cases where one would still have LoS, would give an incorrect range when looking for the shortest path. I'd appreciate an example of this.
    To further prove my point that it was never the intent, I found this in the how to play booklet:
    Floomby 18-04-2019 151059.png
    Keep in mind that, even if obstacles don't count toward determining LoS, they still count as occupied spaces and there's no exception about range in the reference guide, so in order for Wild Bill to attack from behind 8-Ball, that :L:range measure would need to go all around the barriers. And that would place the target out of range.

    I honestly think that the idea behind the "must avoid both Occupied and Blocked spaces" is just to make it clear the need of LoS, but it backfired in the examples I'm giving above. Suggesting to measure :J:marked as :SL: is bending the rules as much as what I suggested. In the end, the rules reference needs an update either on their Range entry, or their obstacles and :J:marked status.
     
    ijw likes this.
  8. -V-

    -V- A! Team member
    CB Staff

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    I note down this issue. Thanks all for your comments.

    :wink:
     
    AdmiralJCJF, der_narr and treiral like this.