Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.
Perhaps, i couldn't find anywhere something denying this, but i can be wrong
this is very interesting, would love to have confirmation about what hardDisk is legal or not!
If you declare a Dodge, Stealth already ceased to work. No matter what you do with your second skill.
Can you show where i can see it in the rules?
Stealth effects, second bullet point. Stealth prevents ARO's, if you declare Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement. Dodge is neither.
► If the user declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies and stays outside their LoF, he does not grant AROs to those enemies
Well, in my example the Umbra didn't get to LoF until after the dodge and declares dodge outside ZoC, so stealth is still active RAW
This only works if the Fusilier never gains LoF to Nourkias while Nourkias moves. Which is just how stealth works. You could move move to the Fusilier for the same effect.
While true, Nourkias' +2" dodge means he could potentially get a 10" move instead of an 8" one. In addition, he would be dodging any incoming attacks from elsewhere (though that might make it too risky).
No? You still declared Dodge, which is not tied to a specific location along your movement. This is why people are referring to Skills being simultaneous.
That would allow the Fusilier to declare an unopposed CC Attack or Dodge. Unlike N3, entering Silhouette contact with Stealth will prompt an ARO. The only way to avoid this would be while inside Smoke or similar, because then the target wouldn't gain LoF on Silhouette contact.
While I can respect that, bullet 3 specifically calls out the second short skill, not the "other" short skill.
If this is the intent, then "had" needs to be "has" in the 4th bullet. As written, Angus did not have LoF until reaching Silly contact, at which point having LoF is in present tense.
I'm sorry if this sounds nit-picky, but as written, it has N3 mechanics. If the intent is for it to be different, then it should be addressed.
That's not a relevant distinction. When the second Skill is declared, and you move into ZoC, both Skills have happened within ZoC.
I think we're looking at different bullet points. See Effect 2:
If the user declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies and stays outside their LoF, he does not grant AROs to those enemies.
My emphasis. As per the LoF rules, being in Silhouette contact grants Troopers 360º LoF but only within Silhouette contact.
If you declare a Move into contact, you don't stay outside LoF (ignoring Smoke etc.).
As far as I'm concerned, it needed another rewrite for clarity, but that wasn't my decision to make. :-(
Agreed. It's, honestly, a pretty big change to stealth, especially for CC units, that is written waay too much like the N3 rule.
I know that skills are simultaneous, but as @Sabin76 said:
I disagree, the dodge rule says:
► A successful Normal or Face to Face Dodge Roll allows the user to move up to 2 inches.
► Does not generate AROs or trigger Deployable Weapons or Equipment.
If a unit gets LoF caused by a dodge movement, he can't ARO
There is a second ARO step after second short skill. It specifically calls out declare ARO's after movement is complete. This would generate an ARO
If you check the thread, you’ll see that this was in response to someone talking about doing a Move-Move into combat.
Ok, perhaps i was not clear enough, let's try with a picture
1°- A uses an order just outside ZoC of B, A can declare dodge without AROs
2°- A declare move and have stealth, the stealth rules allows to move inside ZoC without AROs
3°- Resolution step: roll dodge
4°- Dodge move into CC with no AROs!
move-move is not the same as a dodge+move, there's no ARO check step after the resolution for the dodge move
For the record, i don't want stealth to work this way, but thats RAW for me, a FAQ would be nice.
On the 3° bullet point, instead "if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO."
Was "if any other Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO."
then this conversation would never exist.
No one is disputing that anymore (I don't think). There were two different conversations going on: the one about Dodge + Move, and Bellyflop thinking it would be identical to a Move + Move (which is incorrect) which sparked the side conversation about the consequences of the stealth revision to the Move + Move order (which should be over, at this point).
Can you please copy this post into a new thread in the rules forum rather than leaving it buried 19 pages into an N4 speculation thread?