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Combined Army in N4

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    Same. It's the usual coming-of-age issues of a new edition and Army, only last time we had a pdf reference. Ironing out all bugs will take some time.
     
  2. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    yeah but the PDFs were full of errors too...
     
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  3. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    rofl... thanks @RobertShepherd for the Caliban + MA3 + Protheion + D-Charges tidbit, now *thats* a combo.
     
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  4. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Antipodean midwit

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    I call it the Anarchist's Cookbook :P
     
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  5. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I always thought "making your taste buds explode" was just an expression. The more you know :P
     
  6. CM_Punk

    CM_Punk Member

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    Just for clarification, when declaring a dodge, does the enemy trooper you intend to engage get an aro? And if they do and also dodge, can they cancel the engagement again with this?
     
  7. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    upload_2020-9-30_11-17-52.png

    Edit: in IJC case, the enemy CANNOT declare Dodge because he has no LoF on the Samaritan. nomnomnom...
     
  8. CM_Punk

    CM_Punk Member

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    Sorry maybe I am a bit dense, but at the point of declaration from your dodge the stealth is broken, so they could declare an aro right?
    Just the movement of a potentially successful dodge doesn't generate any new aro or have I misread that part?
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Yes they'd get a 'ZoC ARO' like Dodge, but with the usual -3 MOD.

    Also, bear in mind that when you are measuring and deciding where to go with your Dodge move, you already know if the 'target' has successfully Dodged and moved, so if they move out of range you can choose to stay where you are, or even retreat again.
     
  10. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    IJW above
     
  11. CM_Punk

    CM_Punk Member

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    Only 1 more questions I swear :D
    But if both successfully dodge you move your trooper first as you are active and then the opponent would move, so he could cancel the engagement again? So if the opponent dodges successfully you probably shouldn't engage at all...

    Edit: The dodges aren't f2f are they?
     
  12. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Correct, and no.
     
  13. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    My previous post had the timing slightly wrong, but the main point is that you know if they have successfully Dodged before you decide where to move. You know they're going to run away, so you choose not to move out into LoF.

    Unless they're a particularly high priority target, in which case you move out anyway, and run them down with the next Order.
     
  14. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    Stealth is optional, you don't need to use it, you could move normally and wait for the enemy to declare the ARO, but since the "change face" is a dodge-3 he could move if the dodge is succeeded, going back to what @ijw said
     
  15. El tito Zylito

    El tito Zylito Active Member

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    So, the "trick" about turning off stealth in the first part to force your target a change face roll(without LOS) and then going into melee in the second part it is still viable, but now if the target "change face" succesfully, can try to move away from you?
     
  16. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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  17. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought, listen up @HellLois , there's a loop hole inside stealth that allows you to dodge outside ZoC, then move with stealth inside a ZoC and move again with the dodge, allowing no AROs and getting into base contact with a enemy. I'll explain.

    Stealth says:
    • If the user declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies and stays outside their LoF, he does not grant AROs to those enemies
    • However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO
    So, you can move+dodge OR dodge+move, right? If you are outside ZoC you can declare dodge without triggering AROs, after that you could declare move to get closer to the opponent's unit without triggering AROs because move it's a "Short Movement Skill" and since dodge was your FIRST short skill you can't trigger any AROs, after your dodge you could move to base contact and since this move triggers no AROs, your opponent can't react at all.

    Let's say that we have Nourkias just outside our favorite fusilier, Angus, ZoC and outside LoF.
    • Nourkias declare dodge - no AROs
    • Nourkias declare move, moving 6" closer to Angus and because of stealth, no AROs
    • Nourkias passes his dodge roll, moving 4" into base contact with Angus, still no AROs
    • Next order, Nourkias and Angus are in base contact.
     
  18. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if it's a loophole... that will depend on whether it was actually intended or not. As it stands, this seems like a really niche way for very specialized CC units to get into base contact in one order where it would have taken two before. Remember, also, that you just stay outside LoF for stealth to work, so you are already coming in from behind (and, presumably, using more orders to get there). Troopers can cover both corners of a building now, so it will be even harder than suggested as long as the opponent has smart placement.

    Lastly, one of the main gripes about CC focused troopers is that they had a hard time (for the most part) actually getting into CC. A slight buff for the most specialized of the CC units is probably not going to break the game.
     
  19. HardDisk

    HardDisk Well-Known Member

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    well, it doesn't seems like this is the way that stealth should work, allowing non-movement skills to work with stealth if they're declared with the first short order...

    And the dodge move doesn't trigger AROs, so it doesn't matter if you move into LoF
     
  20. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps the "simultaneity" clause prevents it? Though we already have situations where order of skill declaration matters even with it (BS Attack + Move vs Move + BS Attack)