Same. It's the usual coming-of-age issues of a new edition and Army, only last time we had a pdf reference. Ironing out all bugs will take some time.
rofl... thanks @RobertShepherd for the Caliban + MA3 + Protheion + D-Charges tidbit, now *thats* a combo.
Just for clarification, when declaring a dodge, does the enemy trooper you intend to engage get an aro? And if they do and also dodge, can they cancel the engagement again with this?
Edit: in IJC case, the enemy CANNOT declare Dodge because he has no LoF on the Samaritan. nomnomnom...
Sorry maybe I am a bit dense, but at the point of declaration from your dodge the stealth is broken, so they could declare an aro right? Just the movement of a potentially successful dodge doesn't generate any new aro or have I misread that part?
Yes they'd get a 'ZoC ARO' like Dodge, but with the usual -3 MOD. Also, bear in mind that when you are measuring and deciding where to go with your Dodge move, you already know if the 'target' has successfully Dodged and moved, so if they move out of range you can choose to stay where you are, or even retreat again.
Only 1 more questions I swear :D But if both successfully dodge you move your trooper first as you are active and then the opponent would move, so he could cancel the engagement again? So if the opponent dodges successfully you probably shouldn't engage at all... Edit: The dodges aren't f2f are they?
My previous post had the timing slightly wrong, but the main point is that you know if they have successfully Dodged before you decide where to move. You know they're going to run away, so you choose not to move out into LoF. Unless they're a particularly high priority target, in which case you move out anyway, and run them down with the next Order.
Stealth is optional, you don't need to use it, you could move normally and wait for the enemy to declare the ARO, but since the "change face" is a dodge-3 he could move if the dodge is succeeded, going back to what @ijw said
So, the "trick" about turning off stealth in the first part to force your target a change face roll(without LOS) and then going into melee in the second part it is still viable, but now if the target "change face" succesfully, can try to move away from you?
Just a thought, listen up @HellLois , there's a loop hole inside stealth that allows you to dodge outside ZoC, then move with stealth inside a ZoC and move again with the dodge, allowing no AROs and getting into base contact with a enemy. I'll explain. Stealth says: If the user declares a Short Movement Skill or Cautious Movement within the Zone of Control of one or more enemies and stays outside their LoF, he does not grant AROs to those enemies However, if the second Short Skill of the Order is any non-Movement Skill, then those enemies can react normally in ARO So, you can move+dodge OR dodge+move, right? If you are outside ZoC you can declare dodge without triggering AROs, after that you could declare move to get closer to the opponent's unit without triggering AROs because move it's a "Short Movement Skill" and since dodge was your FIRST short skill you can't trigger any AROs, after your dodge you could move to base contact and since this move triggers no AROs, your opponent can't react at all. Let's say that we have Nourkias just outside our favorite fusilier, Angus, ZoC and outside LoF. Nourkias declare dodge - no AROs Nourkias declare move, moving 6" closer to Angus and because of stealth, no AROs Nourkias passes his dodge roll, moving 4" into base contact with Angus, still no AROs Next order, Nourkias and Angus are in base contact.
I don't know if it's a loophole... that will depend on whether it was actually intended or not. As it stands, this seems like a really niche way for very specialized CC units to get into base contact in one order where it would have taken two before. Remember, also, that you just stay outside LoF for stealth to work, so you are already coming in from behind (and, presumably, using more orders to get there). Troopers can cover both corners of a building now, so it will be even harder than suggested as long as the opponent has smart placement. Lastly, one of the main gripes about CC focused troopers is that they had a hard time (for the most part) actually getting into CC. A slight buff for the most specialized of the CC units is probably not going to break the game.
well, it doesn't seems like this is the way that stealth should work, allowing non-movement skills to work with stealth if they're declared with the first short order... And the dodge move doesn't trigger AROs, so it doesn't matter if you move into LoF
Perhaps the "simultaneity" clause prevents it? Though we already have situations where order of skill declaration matters even with it (BS Attack + Move vs Move + BS Attack)
