I love the Lunokhod. It's in almost every CJC list I write. I sometimes make a conscious effort not to include it because I don't want it to become a crutch. I have to dissagree heavily with the folks comparing it to Morans. For me those two require very different playstyles. They docomplement each other in a way by adding to the Koala roadblock and the repeater network but thats also where the similarities end. The Lunokhod for me is a very aggressive swiss army-knife. I include both versions in my lists but the HFT one I probably use slightly more. Most of the time I use it to trade upwards by flaming or shotgunning fireteams but it's also great as a Area denial piece that can cover a lot of ground with climbing+ and the Koalas. The most insane thing about the Lunokhod and Tsyklon is Climbing+. This ability is costed at ONE single point and it does so much work by opening up so many more approach vectors, so many otherwise unreachable positions and so many unforseen plays that I sometimes feel dirty using it too fiendishly... Tsyklons are not a must-have for me but again the toolbox of climbing+, repeater, pitcher and a very formidable gun can do so much work. I do like TR bots. In my opponents list. For me there is only one scenario where they really get the chance to shine - thats when the opponent has no option to react on the deployment of the TR bot. Otherwise there are just so many ways to counter them as Nomads and beeing a remote they have no way to really escape their destiny once the opponent deploys a single counter-unit. Granted - there is always the small chance that the opponent has nothing that could handle a TR bot but at least in my meta I would consider that a big list building flaw.
I can see more of an argument for a TR bot in CJC. I still didn't take one, but I can see it. I didn't take the Tsyklon that much either to be honest. I had link teams do the heavy lifting for the most part, and I rarely took more than a Killer Hacker. Spending 30+ points does feel a lot more painful in CJC, since there are so many great profiles in the low to mid 20s.
I think it's because it can shoot in the active turn, ignores cover to hit, is faster, has climbing plus, and is cheaper in both SCW and Pts. It's too versatile for a Sin Eater to compete IMO.
I would rather win ftf then rely on armor. I'd prefer odd but that's a good point about arm 3 helping with the extra level of unconscious. I use luno in games that require nt opponent to get into my dz. I favor the heavy flamethrower and hiding where it can cover a corner with flame. I like the tsyklon. Bs 9 repeater in enemy dz is useful. Tag your side of a building and freeze an enemy HI team or remote. Your opponent will generate a lot of annoying aros getting the repeater removed. Maximum troll/ win. Tsyklon + tag possession and spend the rest of your orders killing their backfield with their own monster. I can't seem to make them work as aggressive pieces though. Their move forward usually leaves them vulnerable to various counter attacks, and I have better pieces for moving forward. I mostly use the tsyklon fuerbach for 1 more long range aro in my lists which rarely disappoints.
I've picked up using the Tsyklon recently because a pincer maneuver requires a strong center and unless I had a Gecko I was having a hard time attacking if I was down a Bandit and they weren't positioned to get hit by AD.
Corregidor can hack almost as good as bakunin or vanilla, and better than most other armies. Hacking is 1 part device, 1 part wip, and 3 parts controlling hacking area. The moran and remotes are good advantages over other armies. A bandit assault hacking device does about as much as a custodian would. Marker state is more defensive than bts 9 and with surprise shot the WIP gap shifts to the bandits advantage.
It ignores cover if it's in the hacking area of one of your hackers, and at the cost of other supportware. The versatility comes at the expense of it being worse in reactive than a Sin Eater and worse in the active than a Tsyklon Spit. I don't have issues putting both of those in my lists and the 5 point swing of +2 BS & Mimetism is worth the cost. Also, I usually let my skirmishers handle the midfield and focus my ARO pieces on protecting my DZ. In that role, the Sin Eater Mk12 is superior due to the range band and it costs 0 SWC. TR Bots are just too fragile and easy to counter for my taste.
Cuz Sin-Eater is ARO piece, while TR Bot is Assault piece. On top of that you can buff TR bot with Marksmanship thus negating -3 Cover Mod and adding Shock to the HMG ammo. So - TR bot is a bit worse than Sin-Eater in ARO, a bit worse than Tsyklon in Active - it is cheaper than either Sin-Eater and Tsyklon and is better than Sin-Eater in active and than Tsyklon in Reactive... so... there's that.
Sin Eater can die from shock instantly, that can be a bummer ^^U Because you don't deploy a Tsyklon Feuerbach with Overclock. You deploy a Tsyklon Feuerbach AND two 8pts Flash Pulse Mimetic remotes and a 3pts Warcor, maybe with another tsyklon or Total Reaction for extra threat. The trick is that, thanks to Climbing Plus, you can force the enemy to face both at once without option for "slicing the pie". And Unconscious troops do not fall from the wall they are "climbing" to, since they lose "climbing plus" but don't "move" :p
You can also do fun things like fire a Pitcher back at the Swiss Guard / Hac Tao / Gutter rather than FTFing them. Vs a Swiss it changes the odds of losing a wound from 75% to 84% (but only increases the chance of losing 3 wounds by 2%). So it's basically it's still a sure thing but gives you the opportunity to cause difficulties.
I can see the argument for remotes since they cannot go prone, but how I always thought it worked was that for anything that could go prone (non-remote, etc), going unconscious forces you to go prone, which makes you not able to climb, which makes you fall. @xagroth seemed to indicate that no one falls off a wall once they go unconscious.
You're asking us to cite rules for something that doesn't happen. "Troops can never be in the Prone state while they Climb or hold on to a vertical surface." That says that they can't go Prone. This from Prone tells us that 'if something goes Unconcious they usually go Prone unless prevented'. It doesn't directly deal with Climbing but it gives an indication of intent. "If a trooper enters the Unconscious state, it falls Prone automatically unless it belongs to a Unit Type unable to go Prone (REM, TAG, Vehicle...) or has a piece of Equipment that prevents it from going Prone (a Motorcycle, for example)." Nothing in any rule says that an Unc Trooper ceases to 'hold onto a vertical surface'.
but what rule actually tells you to fall ? why going for a auto fall when in an invalid position instead of, say, going IMM for being in an invalid position like it is the case for your Sil changing into a bigger size ? rule-wise though, there is nothing that say something special is suppose to happen. And this also apply to non-climbing+ model who become unconscious while Climbing. they don't lose climb+, they never had it.
Because being IMM and Unc is pointless. Particularly because you'd stop being IMM if you were healed (because the position would be legal again). People have a bias against meaningless stuff.
So what I get from this is that there are only two specific things that can prevent you from going prone when you fall unconscious; troop type and equipment. I don't think it's the intention of this to include anything else here. Using that first quote as context, holding on to a vertical surface (which is not a troop type or piece of equipment) cannot stop you from going prone. Therefore, you go prone, and the only way to resolve this to a legal position is for you to not be holding on to a vertical surface anymore. If you want we can discuss on PM, I don't necessarily wanna fill up the thread with a rules debate about this. I'm also totally willing to concede the argument if you can point me to a topic where that conclusion was reached.
true IMM is pointless with Unc, I guess that is why one would invent falling after Unc rather than invent being IMM after Unc. For me, REM (with or without Climb+) are more logically IMM and stuck on the wall, as holding on is a simple physical interaction that don't require muscle (i'm still talking about big 'autonomous' metal objects here).
To the best of my knowledge it hasn't been discussed. And we're not going to reach a satisfactory conclusion here.
