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Code One: Cancelling Unc cancelling Prone

Discussion in 'Rules' started by inane.imp, Apr 28, 2020.

  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Cancelling Unc also automatically cancels Prone.

    A couple of questions:
    1. Is this obligatory or optional?
    At the moment I read it as obligatory, you can't remain Prone if your Unc state is cancelled for any reason.

    2. Does this apply to pre-existing Prone states or just Prone states associated with Unc?
    At the moment I read it as applying to any Prone state. So a Prone trooper that goes Unc and is Dr'd automatically stands up.

    3. How does this interact with IMM?
    At the moment I read IMM as having no effect on this interaction. So an IMM and UNC model that is Dr'd automatically stands up (despite this action normally requiring Movement).
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    This covers all three of your questions.
     
  3. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    IMO more interesting: Does this trigger AROs?
     
  4. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    AROs are declared in Step 2 & 4 of the Order Expenditure Sequence. Cancelling Unconscious happens in Step 5.1 Effects, so after AROs have already been declared.

    Short answer - no, it will not trigger AROs.
     
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  5. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    My Sineater(s) like this.
     
  6. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Viagra filled Medikit are a thing now?
     
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  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    What happens when a Trooper's Prone state is Automatically cancelled and they're in a position where their full SIL can't fit?

    Not an issue with the official terrain but any time topcover is lower than the height of the SIL its a risk.
     
    #7 inane.imp, Apr 29, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  8. Vanderbane

    Vanderbane Well-Known Member

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    I vote they gain the ability "idspispopd" for the rest of the game.
     
  9. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the rules don't say. Going by N3's rules, the result would be IMM-2 due to insufficient space: http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Models_and_Markers_Replacement

    Looking at the new IMM-A state, it looks like it would be reasonable to say that the result is IMM-A until the trooper dodges prone.

    Of course, naturally the friendlier solution is to house rule errata the word "will" with the words "may (if desired) " in the second cancellation bullet point. :spock-hand:
     
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  10. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    [idiocy mode ON]He hits the head and is forced to take another ARM roll... [idiocy mode OFF]
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    There are no rules for a unit ending up in a place where they can't fit in CodeOne, but there are rules that specifically prevents you from ending your movement there*. I would say these restrictions take precedence over an undefined situation, and as such if you're in a crawl-space and get Doctored you may not cancel prone because you are unable to do so.

    * During a normal movement there are several situations** a unit could be Prone under something and then be allowed to cancel Prone state and move the full first MOV value out from under there even if they don't fit, so in the general and more common case cancelling prone is not necessarily forbidden - it's just that cancelling prone and not moving out from under the space is.
    ** Provided the crawl space is not lower than half your SIL of course.
     
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  12. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    That's the thing. There also aren't any rules for a unit ending up in a place where they can't fit in Infinity, 2nd or N3. However, the 2nd edition FAQ (which I can't find a convenient copy of, but I know I have on a drive somewhere...) had a FAQ about transmutation in a too-small space, and N3 has the stuff about profile changes.

    So the quandary is trying to figure out whether the "automatically cancel Prone" for cancelling Unconscious is there in the spirit of 'The player probably wants to cancel Prone, and it'll be simpler if we just do it for them' style of benefit; or if it was chosen to deliberately create scenarios like:
    - Trooper is wounded and goes unconscious, dropping prone behind and out of line of fire. If you try to sneak a doctor up to them and heal them, the trooper automatically stands up even though you'd prefer them to stay hidden.
     
  13. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I would prefer if the unconscious cancellation said that you may cancel prone automatically.
     
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  14. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    And I would prefer if it stayed as it was in N3.
    It's more logical - you activate the Doctor/Paramedic, not the patient - so the patient shouldn't stand up, he's not activated...


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
  15. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Oh, sure, that's definitely a valid viewpoint. Allowing revived troops to stand up makes recovery skills a just a tiny bit stronger, but forcing them to stand up means that sometimes you really don't want to do it.
     
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  16. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Me too. First what you say and second, I don´t wan´t my specialist show its head just because I managed to recover it with my last order.
    I know, units on ARO duty may welcome that, but anyway it makes no sense, that the passiv element does something active, its just changed its - very important - state.
     
  17. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Well, whether we like it or not, the language is fairly unambiguous: you have to stand up if you successfully recover. Strategic implications are somewhat large as it now doesn't require you to spend an order on your ARO piece in your active turn to get it back into position (which is also an exceptional buff for Regen ARO pieces, of which there are currently ~3 if you count both HMGs as a half an ARO piece each :P). The detrimental effects were outlined as well, but these will probably have a smaller impact on the game as a whole.

    Generally speaking, recovering a trooper back to where it was before it fell is now a short movement skill cheaper than it was.
     
  18. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    When our meta was younger, people would cancel their UNC state after doctoring, but since they never put the Prone Marker there their Trooper would stand up - intuitively - unless they were downed while Prone.

    Having Unconscious have most of Prone's rules built in, but not actually entering the state is, I think, what most people would like their Troops to do. If the Trooper was standing up, you usually want it back up where they were doing a job in cover, if they were Prone you want them to remain Prone so they don't lose Cover or get exposed by standing up.
    (Although most universally applicable nicety to players and all situations is to allow you to optionally cancel Prone)
     
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  19. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Simply put?
    Unconscious marker has a little Prone marked on top.
    Remove the marker, remove also the Prone.

    And I like that, if you want to doctor someone, he is at risk again. Risk/Reward dynamic more stressed.
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense, except for troopers who were already and separately Prone.
     
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