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Clipsos with Nimbus Plus Grenades

Discussion in 'Spiral Corps' started by Cothel, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    Nimbus Plus Grenades are a rare item in Infinity. Pano has a character with them and Tohaa have the Clipsos and Sakiels who can bring them. Spiral Corps gets the Clipsos.

    Now this is not a tactic for everyone, but it is one that sparked debate in the Tohaa section of the forums. The Nimbus Plus Grenade creates a Reflective Poor Visibility Zone (-6) and Saturation Zone (-1 Burst). This means it effects everyone including MSV L1, L2, and L3. While shooting through your own Zone sucks just as bad as it does for your opponent, it doesn't hurt when you are using things like Pulzars, Heavy Flamethrowers, Nanopulsers. True you will lose one Burst if you have more that one (Chaksa Longarms with Dual Pulzars in a Haris have Burst 3). You will not lose that Burst if you target as many units as you have Burst. Your Targets of these attacks now have a -6 to their Dodge.

    This is an interesting and sometimes unexpected tactic to be used against things like Motorcycles, Remotes, TAGs, and Fireteams. The main debate in the Tohaa forums was about dealing with Fireteams. We generally cannot win face to face against a 5 man Core. This much less of a problem with Spiral Corps with the ability to have two fireteams with 5 man bonuses. But it doesn't hurt to have other tricks up your sleeve.

    I had been debating the idea of using the Nimbus Plus Clipsos working with a Chaksa Longarm Haris to see how well it worked. At 82 points it is an investment for this one trick.

    Spiral Corps
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4
    CHAKSA LONGARM (Fireteam: Haris) 2 Pulzar, Contender, E/M Grenade / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 20)
    CHAKSA LONGARM 2 Pulzar, Contender, E/M Grenade / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
    CHAKSA LONGARM 2 Pulzar, Contender, E/M Grenade / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
    CLIPSOS Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)

    0.5 SWC | 82 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I had also thought about trying a pair of Draal with their Triad boosted Pulzars along with a Kiel-Saan.

    Spiral Corps
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4
    CLIPSOS Combi Rifle, Nimbus Plus Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    DRAAL Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges, Dazer / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    KIEL-SAAN (Special Fireteam: Triad) Mk12, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 53)

    0 SWC | 137 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    The Idea would be just a complete assault on the other army with 137 points of my own. The rest of my army would be focused on the objective.

    Now I know to some these ideas look silly or even foolish. Personally I like trying weird and different combinations. Part of the reason Tohaa is so hated is because people can't use their normal tactics against them. Trying weird and different will often throw your opponent off their game and allow you to get the win. There is a chance when trying weird and different, but sometimes it's just fun to try.

    If nothing else, I hope this post points a spotlight on a tool that some of the newer people to Tohaa were not aware was in their Spiral Corps tool box.
     
  2. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    I can assure you: for us, Spiral Corps players these ideas look awesome and just fantastic.
    Love it!
    Gimmy moooooooooar!
    Just one thing I do not really understand: As far as I can see, the Nimbus Plus Grenade generates a Low Visibility Zone and Saturation Zone, that implies a -3MOD not a -6MOD (and loss of Burst, obviously).
    Could You please check this?
    One more thing: in the Wiki the entry of the Nimbus Special Ammunition says, 'The MODs of Low Visibility Zone due to Nimbus Special Ammunition will be also applied to troopers equipped with a Multispectral Visor of any Level, or any other piece of Equipment that specifies the same.'
    I just don't see the point of the Reflective trait...
     
    #2 Káosz Brigodéros, Apr 3, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  3. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    You are correct about the Nimbus Special Ammunition, but the Nimbus Plus Grenades create a Poor Visibility Zone which is -6 because they are using Nimbus Plus Special Ammunition.

    The Reflective trait is to make it effective against MSV units.
     
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  4. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    According to Army, Nimbus Plus Grenade has the trait Nimbus instead of Nimbus Plus. It has to be a bug, because the Wiki states Nimbus Plus Grenade has the Nimbus Plus Trait.
    Got it. Thank You!
    Still not getting the Reflective trait. According to Wiki, Nimbus Plus (and Nimbus, for the record) affects troopers with MSV and similar. Reflective is superfluous.
     
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  5. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    Lovin' it
    And... The Clipsos has Multiterrain, the Draal a Dazer... Making them work Hand in Hand is Smart. If the Draal Dazers an area (Coined it!) the Clipsos can walk through Push the Button, grab the Thing what ever... no problems.
    So many hidden Gems wow...
    Thanks for that info @Cothel everyday I'm learning something new
     
  6. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    @Cothel I salute you. You're mad, yet there is method in it :P
     
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  7. csparris

    csparris Captain Sunshine

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    IMMA CHARGIN MUH DAZERS!
     
  8. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    Chargem' Up!
    This is the kind of stuff I was talking about...
    There's so many small interactions that can take place. I just keep finding new ones, people keep pointing new things out. Which I'm very grateful for looking forward to learning more.
     
    #8 DustGod, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  9. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    Another trick to use with Nimbus Plus Grenades is shooting through it with Sensor: Triangulated Fire. This is not a trick you should base your plan of attack around, but it is an awesome little situational trick that could take someone buy surprise. Using Triangulated Fire you ignore all bonuses and penalties from a shot and take a shot at your BS -3. This means you can ignore TO Camo, Cover, Nimbus Plus, range, and anything else that might get in the way of your dice roll. This does not change the -1 to Burst however. Also, this is an entire order skill, so no Fireteam Bonuses.

    Spiral Corps can field five sensors at a time. Four of those being the AVA 4 Chaksa Auxiliars. They can only do this trick with their pistols, but you never know when it might be handy.

    The other unit in Spiral Corps that has Sensor is Hatail Aelis Keesan. She can bring either a K1 Combi Rifle or a Viral Combi Rifle. She is also the only Killer Hacker we have in Spiral Corps. Feel free to let that spark ideas. With her choice of Combi Rifle she has a max range of 48". Her BS is a 12. Basically you can shoot through Nimbus Plus at up to 48" on a roll of 9 with Burst 2. Anything you are shooting at through the Nimbus Plus zone will be shooting back with a -6 and more than likely a -3 for cover. So -9 before range modifiers on the target. In some cases this really isn't a huge tactic. Going against a Pano Core with a long range weapon, they will still just have a -6 to hit you. But if you catch the right unit with the right range bands, you might just remove a troublesome piece off the table unexpectedly.

    Keep in mind that many Tohaa players don't use Aelis because they have better tools to do some of the job she used have. At one time she was the only K1 we had in an army that didn't have Panzerfausts, Missile Launcers, or any kind of AP. She used to be in every list I made because I generally played against Pano HI and TAGs, or big heavy Morats. She did manage to get work done despite her lack of Symbiont Armor. Currently she is one of the few places to get KI (Kosuil Combi and Reex Marksman being the others) and Viral bigger than a pistol (Taagma Sniper and Rasail Combi).

    Aelis is from one of the Dire Foes packs. If you don't want to buy that pack, you always have the Hatail Spec-Ops from the pre-order to use as a proxy...as long as you pre-ordered. :)
     
  10. Wyrmnax

    Wyrmnax Well-Known Member

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    While triangulated fire is a very nice tactics, it is even more niche than @Cothel mentioned. It is a Entire Order skill, meaning you cannot move into a nimbus zone and triangulated from there, you need to start in the zone. That makes it much more usable on Cobra Zulus with their marker state than otherwise.

    But yeah, it is a very nice perk to keep in mind that can catch someone by surprise.
     
  11. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    You don't even have to be in the zone for Triangulated Fire. You can be across the table with the Zone somewhere between Aelis and the Target. The only way to get Aelis into position without the target shooting at her is to use Cybermask to get into position, or just don't worry about it and shoot back with the penalties. Depending on the Target's weapon there is a chance they have a -12 to hit due to poor range. Then again you might be at -12 due to poor range as well...until you Triangulate.
     
  12. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    I did... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    Wow That's fantastic man...
    My main opponent usually runs JSA or Nomads and he can't help but bring heavy armor in Nomads Iguanas or Brigada are almost always in his list...
    I am definitely going to use this tactic...
    Oh looking at her Wow... KDH, Sensor, Regeneration, K1 Combi, Nanopulser... Sold
    I'm learning a lot from you man I wish we could just hang out and chop it up
    Now if I could figure out a way to deal with those pesky Ninjas, Oni and Kitsune...

    You I think about writing a Spiral Corps Tactica @Cothel ?
     
  13. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    #metoo
    Your opponent will normally field his Ninjas around the middle of the field and Onibawans right next to the DZ. To figure out what he brought, take your time and calculate the missiong points. JSA lacks AD troopers, everything that is not on the table is in hidden deployment. (29 - KHD Ninja, 35 - FO Ninja, 37 - SMG Onibawan, 40 - AHD Ninja, 47 - Shinobu) KHD Ninja: push button and kill in CC. FO and AHD Ninja: push button & has a rifle and supposed to enter Suppressive Fire mode. Everybody else: CC death incarnate. (For the record the most popular choices are KHD Ninja and Onibawan / Shinobu. Fo Ninja and AHD Ninja are less popular because relatively expensive.)
    Now you can
    a) Smoke your way out of DZ and pay attention when you cross the midline. Put yourself in the place of your opponent and ask yourself the question: where would you had put the Ninja? Lay down smoke there and don't go there.
    b) Use sensor to discover HD troopers. Notice that the 10-points (in)expensive Chaksa Auxiliars are the closes thing SC has to a cheerleader. Yes, you can use co-ordinated order to sensor with 4 Chaksas simultaneously. No, it does not need LoF.
    In case you discover one, notice that said Chaksas are all equipeed with one Heavy Flamethorwer per head. In case you fielded one, MSV2 snipers will turn said Ninjas into mincemeat on short notice. Avoid close combat, however...
    I hope, this helps.
     
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  14. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    @Káosz Brigodéros
    It does... Chaksas will help a lot...
    My brother plays JSA... He runs as much TO as possible but he's a Sneaky Sneaky about deployment... we've been wargaming against each other since we were kids... the bastard learned to think like me...and then deploy accordingly...
    Fighting against him when he's running his JSA is uphill battle but there's not very many models on the field 10-13 so once I start killing things they falter fast...

    I got a few more models to buy... I hope @ShaeKonnit gets some more stuff for Tohaa soon I need a few things...
    (My Girls gonna kill me soon if I don't shut my wallet)
     
  15. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    If I actually played more and had some tournament experience under my belt I'd be tempted to do something. Unfortunately I don't get to play often enough, nor against enough variety of opponents to feel like I have the authority to create something like that. I'll leave those for the experts. I just like posting topics about tactics I have thought about. Probably shouldn't do that since my main opponent is on these forums as well, but the other guys I play against don't come around here much.
     
  16. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    This the first time I have ever seen anyone pumped for her in the history of CB. 30+ points for a 1 wound, low armor model is A LOT, she is easy to kill unless you are doing these special plays with her. Much better options
     
  17. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    I seem to keep crossing this bridge often this week... You should wait for my brother he's much bigger:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    This is Why... It doesn't seem that "pumped" to me. But maybe you just need to do "this"....
    Also it's in Reference to Spiral Corps
    So... Instead of doing "That" maybe give your wizened and sage advice I wait every so patiently for it@Wombat85

    Soooooo...Any Suggestions @Wombat85
     
    #17 DustGod, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  18. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Sensor + KHD gives her a really interesting but specific niche. It's also the only sensor not on a baggage bot in the army.
     
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  19. DustGod

    DustGod Well-Known Member

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    That's my Take away from what @Cothel was saying... KDH gives her the Sneak, Sensor WIP 14 helps Flush out those Pesky Camo/Hidden Deployment bums, Regeneration WIP 14 gives her some staying power and with K1 it give Spiral Corps much need Anti-Armor.
    With the Tricks I'm starting to learn she might be a good resource.

    You can always find a better unit... Well up to that units limit... I think it's a pretty cool unit TBH.
     
    #19 DustGod, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  20. Cothel

    Cothel Well-Known Member

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    The main reason for the Aelis hate from many Tohaa players is her cost and lack of Symbiont Armor. When you have a Sukeul as an option I guess you can be picky if you want. Aelis is more of an option in Spiral because of some of the unique tools she brings.

    I have a soft spot for Aelis because when I started out she was one of the only tools I had to take on Pano and Morat HI. My friends who play those armies would start hunting her because of this. Knowing my opponents were distracted with her allowed me some interesting psychological tactics.