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Climbing/Climbing Plus

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Zhukov2, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    What if it was an objective rather than an IMM-2 enemy?

    IE. My Uberfalls all start the order B2B with a Panopoly that I want to destroy, can I Move out of B2B + CC it at B4?

    And to answer your question, because I understood the FAQ as generalisable to these situations whereas you're saying that it's purposely specific to jumping. I'm clarifying how it applies to what situation. I thought all these situations where dealt with by that FAQ.
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Again, why wouldn't they?

    Again, the Super Jump FAQ is specific to trying to combat someone in mid-air.
     
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Because last time I argued in favour of drive by CC ganging up MODs vs terrain you said that they didn't work. Then that FAQ came out and I chuckled to myself because it made that argument moot. But if that FAQ only specifically applies to trying to CC someone in mid-air then drive by CC vs walls is back on the menu.

    * Drive by being short hand for 'not being in base contact with the target of the CC Attack when the attack is declared / MODs are applied'.
     
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  4. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Right. The thread where I was saying that the rules for CC against scenery were borked, and I agreed that you should get the ganging-up MODs, but that you'd have to apply all the parts of being Engaged/in base contact with an enemy trooper...

    So you can start the Order in base contact and do Move-CC Attack (as per all opponents being Null/IMM), or you can move into base contact, remain in base contact and attack.

    You just described the first of those two.
     
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  5. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    This is how I like to play it as well.

    Infinity really only has two types of surfaces: Horizontal and Vertical. All you need to do is decide how all surfaces will be treated.

    You could say that the underside of a bridge or walkway is not part of the table at all, which would be fine. Personally, I prefer to treat it as a vertical surface that any model can traverse if they want to, just like any other Vertical surface.

    In other words, instead of making the underside of a bridge or walkway something only models with Climbing Plus can traverse, I prefer to just call it a Vertical surface and let all of the other Infinity rules handle it from there.
     
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You're looking for logic where there is none. The FAQ ruling was made off of "feel."
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. It's a weird one.

    Does it equally apply to pushing button?
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If you mean objectives, then no: objectives will never be in a position where this is relevant since objectives must be on ground level.
    If you mean Activate on things, then I doubt this will ever be relevant since if it is, then that button won't be push-able normally and I doubt anyone would make terrain in such a way.
     
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Objectives don't need to be at ground level. Unless I'm mistaken?

    And even then, I don't see how that would stop this being an - very uncommon - issue.

    Bran jumps from the wall of one building to the wall of a second building skimming over (and just touching) an objective (represented by a piece of scenery).
     
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  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I'm very certain I've read a rule which specify that when setting up a table you must start by placing scenario objectives first. Can't find it atm, which is the worst with sprawling rule set that doesn't like repeating itself like Infinity, finding a rule that can potentially be in several places...
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I've had this argument several times before.

    This text appears in Rescue for Civilians:
    "Players cannot place their Civilians either on top of or inside of any Scenery Item or Building, always deploying it in an accessible location on the table. Scenery placement must facilitate this."

    Whereas, generally, this is what Consoles / Objectives say:
    "There are [X] Consoles, placed [in position] (See map below).
    Each Console must be represented by a Console A Marker or by a scenery piece of the same diameter (such as the Human Consoles by Micro Art Studio, the Tech Consoles by Warsenal or the Comlink Console by Customeeple)."

    I have never found a rule that says that objectives must be at ground level nor that they must be outside of terrain.

    My rule of thumb is that Objectives must be readily accessible (IE if they're on roofs the building should have ladders) and must be practically accessible from both Deployment Zones (although certainly not equally easily).

    This means I'm more likely to put them on a roof of a building than inside a room with only a single access point.

    But the majority of objectives will be on the ground outside of terrain because this is the expectation (but not the rule).
     
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  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That's not actually proof, you know. It's not possible to prove absence and it's on me to find the proof and that I have not found yet.
     
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't presented as proof? Just a comment. :)

    The belief is widespread and consistent but whenever it's been challenged nobody has been able to find evidence for the position.

    From a gameplay POV it doesn't cause issues if you're sensible about it.
     
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  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Which is to say, your comment isn't very convincing on its own because it's not addressing the issue, but rather talks around the issue. From memory, the origin of this restriction comes indirectly from a rule which requires a specific order in which to set up terrain for a scenario where the first step is to set up mission objectives prior to setting up any terrain or scatter. But again, I can't find it, which is the worst thing to try and look for - something that might not be there.
     
  15. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I might not remember well but there is no actual rule that forces objectives to be on ground level furthermore objectives do not have a silhouette so pulling a similar thing will be both tricky and dependent on the terrain used for the objective, if any.

    I would say, I personally, do recommend setting up the objectives and then setting up the table around them and them always be on the ground level for simplicity's and sanity's sake, but one cannot deny the challenge of having the objectives in a difficult to reach positions either by design, or by accidental placement (if terrain is placed before mission is chosen for example).
     
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  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Aren't objectives the size of a scenery item if that is used to represent them? So while they might not have a Sil they can potentially have significant height.
     
  17. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Hence "tricky and dependent on the terrain used for the objective, if any."

    And people may not even use terrain, just the markers.