CJC vs USArianda - Suggestions needed

If you want a suggestion, I think a Gecko with double combi will be perfect in the mid field. No hacker to face, 3 wounds, high armor, likely to fight a lot in his good range, only needs to reach the mid console and stay there the whole game

 

Geckos aren't really TAGs. Or rather they don't feel like TAGs. They're kinda the TAG you're having when you're not having a TAG.

 

Because you don't really need a TAG for Aquisition, but you do need something tough you can sit on the centre console if you end up going first.

Geckos do the latter really well without costing you so much that you can't afford to hold them until Turn 3 for when you really need them.

Most other TAGs cost so much that they, by necessity, become the centre piece of the list.

I don't think they're necessary for Aquisition (personally I'd use a Multi Rifle MB LT), but it's one of the missions they do really well in.

Edit: I'm referring to the fact that controlling the Tech Coffin with your Datatracker at the end of the game is 5 OP. You need a way of winning the game if you go first: Geckos are an option for this.

 

*in turn 3. Not until Turn 3. Pretty much nothing can hold a position for 3 turns.

It's important to not risk them too early. Which is why I like a MB over the Gecko, it's easier to keep safe until you need it. It's also easier to put prone on the objective, so you're less exposed to different attack vectors.

 

I point out the wording because it's important that you phrase your gameplan right to yourself.

Taking the time to look at a list and go "this is the way my game plays in an ideal world" is very useful. Sure it won't work like that in practice, but it gives you a roadmap to work to when you're eating an inopportune crit. :)

I tend to a very "flashing-sword of vengeance" style of play, so I'm perfectly happy with my opponent shoving his attack pieces down my throat turn 1. Last time I played Aquisition, I was lucky enough to kill a Speculo and Ko Dali in Reactive before EMing my Opponent's Avatar on the objective in my first turn. That's pretty much a perfect game for me. But that's a style thing: I need to play more aggressive lists to stretch myself.

 

It's not really a "stage" of the game. I've had literally this conversation with two of the better Australian meta players, they both favour a "hit them hard early, win the game then complete the mission" style of play: both tend to run order heavy, hard alphas. Whereas I've always favoured delay + counterattack as a style of play.

Different factions lend themselves to different styles. Notably neither of them are Nomad players (which I think does very well as a 'delay and counter' faction, although can also play a very strong Alpha game... Nomads are foremost flexible) and one is struggling to make Daylami work in Haqq (which are a very strong unit for delaying your opponent to allow you to counter, but less effective as a springboard into an alpha).

The second step to list building is applying the list to a mission, or vice versa looking at a mission and working out what tools you need in a list. So lets ignore USARF for a moment, and instead just look at Aquisition: what do you need to do to win the mission?

1. It's a mission that heavily favours going second: 9/10 OP are awarded at the end of the game. This is FAR easier if you go second.
2. Keeping your DT alive is worth 2 OP, with an option to score 1 OP if with an FO in the event your DT dies. Conversely, killing your opponent's DT prevents them getting maximum points.
3. There are actually 11 OP available in the mission, having your LO (an FO) alive outside your DZ at the end of the game can get you one.
4. Survivable Specialists are useful (1OP for in B2B with a Console at the end of the game) but not critical. But AD/HD specialists appearing on T3 can easily net you 2OP.
4.A. Hackers and Engineers are particularly good for scoring this.
5. It's a relatively low order count misison: 2 buttons, 1 classified and move into B2B with the centre objective. This gives you a lot of 'spare orders' in the early game to focus on killing your opponent's troops.
6. We don't have to be overly aggressive in defending the objectives, because it down't matter if our opponent takes them T1. We can always take them back.

Ok, so what does this mean from a List Building POV.

1. We need a Tough DT that can sit on the button for a Turn if we get lucky. Smoke, particularly Eclipse, is an option for assisting this; but probably not necessary.
2. We want an FO that will efficiently get outside our DZ, ideally it will survive the game, or cost out opponent a chunk of orders hunting it down.
3. An early game deep striker that we can use to take out our opponent's LNO or DT would be useful.
4. A handful of specialists, possibly including an AD Hacker or Engineer. But don't go overboard.

So, for actual CJC units, what do we need in out list:
1 x MB or Gecko.
A Moran FO as our LNO.
A Bandit (primarily there as a T1/2 attack peice). I'd go with the KHD, because I like the swing role of button pushing with the bonus; but a Bandit Combi would also work well as a strict attacking option.
Defensive link that works on a conservative firelanes, but maintains it's potency into the late game... that says Tsyklon Feurbach to me.
A Tomcat Engineer or Hellcat AHD as a T3 piece to grab late buttons, both also do a good job of shooting their opposition OFF those buttons. With Tysklons and likely less Hackable targets in USARF, Tomcat is probably the better option.
Add Jazz and an Alg Spec Ops Engineer and you've got sufficient specialists.

Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

7 1
BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
ALGUACIL (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (WIP:14, Minelayer, Engineer, Hyper-Dynamics L1) Combi Rifle, Akrylat-Kanone / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34)
JAZZ & BILLIE . (0.5 | 24)
JAZZ Hacker Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermine / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
BILLIE Flash Pulse, E/Mauler / Electric Pulse. (0 | 6)
TOMCAT Engineer Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)

2 SWC | 177 Points

Open in Infinity Army

I've gone with the MB Lt as my DT. There's serious risk with that option vs an opponent with good assassination options, but USARF is limited to AD there. You can cover that to an extend with the Alg Spec Ops Minelayer, the Multi-Rifle over the BSG (Shock for VZ) and adding a Daktari to stand the MB back up again in the event it does go down.

But that's the core of a list that does the mission. Now its a matter of fleshing out the Fireteam (Lupe + Dak is a good option here), getting another ranged attacking option (Intruder works, but so does Tsyklon Spitfire and/or Vertigo) and layering in defensive options (Jags are good, so is a Lunokhod). If you have points left at the point, you can probably look at a second early game 'deep strike' option (McMurder, Combi Bandit and Combi/Spitfire Hellcat all would do well).

So, something like this.


Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 9 1
BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
HELLCAT Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31)
TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34)
LUPE BALBOA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23)
MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
ALGUACIL (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (WIP:14, Minelayer, Engineer, Hyper-Dynamics L1) Combi Rifle, Akrylat-Kanone / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13)

GROUP 2 4 1
TOMCAT Engineer Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
JAZZ & BILLIE . (0.5 | 24)
JAZZ Hacker Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermine / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
BILLIE Flash Pulse, E/Mauler / Electric Pulse. (0 | 6)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

5 SWC | 299 Points

Open in Infinity Army

I tried to fit in an Intruder to deal with USARF Camo, but couldn't quite make it work. Gameplan is as follows:

Deployment
Choose deployment if an option. Deploy conservatively. Link + Alg go down together in a defensive location that they can move out of late game to get to the central objective, nothing with DZ-DZ firelanes. Moran goes down in a location it will be difficult to get at, somewhere overwatched by the fireteam: ideally with their repeater near the centre objective, but survival is more important than repeater coverage. Jags, Billie and Warcor go down to cover approach to the Link by Grunts/Camo or Dogs. Bandit is held in reserve; it'll be positioned somewhere hard to dig out but I can leverage into an attack, if I've made a mistake with my deployment I sacrifice this to cover the hole.

Turn 1
Priority Number 1 is clearing my half of the table. Hellcat is a suitable option for that, but if I can get away with using the Spitfire Tysklon I do that instead. Use it to kill anything pushed forward. Expect this to take pretty much all of group 1s orders (if I don't use it this turn, Bandit gets flipped regular, 1 Command Token). If I can safely get at anything in my opponent's table half I do that as well. Hellcat ends the turn on Suppression. Alg Engineer stands any damaged REMs back up (1 Command Token over the game for REM rerolls) and maybe lays a second mine.

Jazz puts MML2 on the Feurbach Tsyklon, Moran goes on Suppression.

Turn 2
I've lost Billie, WarCor and both Jags at this point. Hellcat is also probably dead. I go on the attack this turn. Ideally I get 1 button and/or a Classified this turn. Bandit should still be alive if I've given my opponent enough other problems to deal with, so that's my go to option this turn; solo Tsyklon is another one (start it in the link, and then break it out).

Jazz MML2s a Tsyklon, maybe one then the other.

Turn 3
Bandit and Hellcat are almost certainly down by this point. I reform the link with the Alg Engineer and shift the Tomcat Engineer into group 1 (1 Command Token). Jazz MML2s the surviving Tysklon (Alg Engineer may need to heal it first). Link fights it's way to the centre console, I set up defensively with the MB in B2B. Tomcat walks on and takes a Button.

1 Command Token spare for unforeseen eventualities, likely a second reroll on repairing a REM or needing to reform the link.

Classifieds I want, in order: Repair REM, Heal Trooper, Data Scan, Coup de Grace, FO a trooper, Sabotage.

That gives me 8-11 OP and my opponent 0-4. So unless I've done particularly badly AND my opponent does particularly well, I'm set up for a Major.

Aside, I'm not convinced with that list or gameplan. But it works of illustrative purposes. I'm thinking I'd be better off with a Combi Bandit and doing something else with the Hellcat... what I'm not certain. Vertigo has a certain appeal.

 

This certainly describes how I play. My rule of thumb is that you usually win on the third turn, so that's the most important. Stamina is the name of my game. That's why I favor Geckos and AD. I think they have added a lot to Correg like Bandits and linking Jaguars to add other styles of play, but I've been figuring out other stuff instead of adopting them.

I'd like to mention that the help I give is based off the assumption that I should hardly touch the original list. Basically just profile and formation changes, then advice on what to do with it. Both are totally legitimate methods of advice. How much you change your list is totally up to you, @Alguaciles_Ortega

How one of the best units in the game doesn't make the cut: a story of my life.

 

Short answer: the requirement for a Gecko or MB eats 20-30 pts that would otherwise get you the Intruder.

There's a couple of ways to make that work: easiest is drop the Spitfire Tsyklon to an Alg, then get an Intruder for the Hellcat.

So, you can do something like this:

Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1 9 1 BANDIT Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 27) ALGUACIL HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18) TSYKLON Feuerbach, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 34) ALGUACIL Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14) MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) ALGUACIL (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (WIP:14, Minelayer, Engineer, Hyper-Dynamics L1) Combi Rifle, Akrylat-Kanone / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)GROUP 2 6 TOMCAT Engineer Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) INTRUDER HMG, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 42) MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) JAZZ & BILLIE undefined. (0.5 | 24) JAZZ Hacker Submachine Gun, Pitcher, Cybermine / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18) BILLIE Flash Pulse, E/Mauler / Electric Pulse. (0 | 6) JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

If you look at my previous analysis, you'll see that it retains the same capabilities. They're just slightly different options for achieving them and 'fleshing out' options have changed (ie losing Lupe for a LGL and Transductor).

Overall, I think I prefer that option. Although it's worth pointing out that it's significantly worse off for effective anti-Dog AROs. Not so badly as to be a problem, but certainly enough to be aware of (incidentally that's why the AK is on the Spec Ops, it's not an ideal option but as a last line of defence after the Jag ADHL it's useful).

BTW I'm actually with Loricus on "play what works for you", I'm mainly discussing how I'd go about looking at the mission and match up. The conclusions I draw from that and how it drives my list building is based on what works for me.

 

There's a lot of personal preference in this. For example I would absolutely take an Intruder, but I would take the Sniper (which a lot of people don't like as much as the HMG, but I do).

US Ariadna have no MSV2 and rely on both smoke and camo, the Intruder can absolutely exploit that.

If you don't throw away McMurrough and put him on on the objective near the end in a similar fashion to how people have described for a Gecko, he's comparably tough (Prob not quite) but you can get smoke on him (which makes very him hard to kill in short order) and the Intruder can shoot most things approaching through it at long range with almost impunity. Sacrifice a Jaguar to get smoke down in an ideal spot last turn if necessary.

If you do that any link team of 4+ should be a primary target early in the game since they are one of the few things that can shoot back at the Intruder on anything like fair terms. Attacking them with a Bandit or a Moran or an AD troop to drop them down a couple members or break the team, even if you lose your piece is often worth it. Also don't fight anything with the Intruder unless he is at a massive advantage (typically shooting through smoke). If you play him carefully he can pick off their pieces in unfair fights late in the game. Don't let them get direct templates (like grunt hft infiltrators!) near him.

But that's just one way to play it. There are quite a few, depending how you like to play. I enjoy reactive play, because it's a fun challenge. Can take a bit more finese in placing and reacting correctly with your pieces than a more typical 'active turn bulldozer' strategy though.

 

Yeah, Gecko + Jag Core + Intruder MSR + aggressive solos is certainly another way to skin this as well.

It changes up the gameplan and the pieces you use to fill the mission critical roles I mentioned when I looked at what you needed to do to achieve the mission, but that fundamental structure remains in place.

Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1 8 2 MORAN (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, CrazyKoalas (2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22) JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13) JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13) LUPE BALBOA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Panzerfaust, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23) DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10) TOMCAT Engineer Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) BANDIT Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 27) BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)GROUP 2 4 GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 58) GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. () ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) ALGUACIL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10) INTRUDER (X-Visor) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 43) 4.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army