When determining the target of a grenade which is not centered on a model, may you use a circular template to determine which models will be affected at a given center point and use that to designate where the grenade will be thrown? When this came up last week I had argued that, since the circular templates always have effects that are a uniform distance from the center, placing the template to determine who will be affected did not constitute any sort of weird pre-measuring, but to be honest I wasn't sure that was the real answer. Cheers.
All of smoke, speculative fire and DTW are borderline with regards to premeassuring, particularly the last two because of the requirement to touch the main target.
Bear in mind that any use of a template involves placing the template upon declaration of a skill, not at resolution. You have to pull it out and place it immediately to know who is getting an ARO.
Fair, but at declaration you could be made to chose the center point and then determine how AROs are generated after placing the template, right?
You could, absolutely. I would even say that might be the most correct way to play it, but I think you'll find most people bypass that as a waste of time and go straight into using the template immediately prior to declaring the center point. This may fall into the... uh... "intent" thing.
Yea, fair. My local group had a talk about it and I actually took the side of we should just allow it because it gets too close to the whole "intent" argument and I don't think my local group wants to go that way. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious. Thanks.
You can do it. The game even calls out the placement of markers and tools to facilitate gameplay. Its not premeasuring and really is basically required. Furthermore its pretty standard good sports for your opponent to help you place the template. Infinity as a game requires cooperation it just doesnt work if your arguing with your opponent and not trying obfuscate and waste time on their turn.
A bit off topic we’ve been playing smoke taking whatever time we want to sight it out for putting down a small market then we put down the smoke template then we get AROs. We are half and half intenters fwiw but don’t do that by intent anyway. @macfergusson could we just put the template down where we like and move it around to suit ?
I was always under the impression that you nominated a center point and then, once you were confirmed, saw who was under the aoe and who wasn't.
Yeah that’s how we play it bc we thought it fits with the way other shooting works (ok it’s usually throwing but w/e)
The most accurate way to play it would be to drop a marker to denote center point (aka Blast Focus), and then measure the circular template based on that center point. This often is bypassed.
I believe that only time a circular impact template is not centered on the target model would be when the weapon has the Targetless trait or the use of Speculative Fire. If Targetless you nominate a point (no peeking!) and make your range and MOD checks from there when resolving. If you are executing Speculative Fire you still nominate a target model and that model must lie under the template at some angle or another. If you're in the intent crowd you should be able to describe the other models you hope will also be under the template. If you're not then you can wiggle the template around until you're satisfied or your opponent is bored/annoyed. But you still have a target and would resolve range and such regardless of where the center of the impact template ends up. That's how we roll 'round here.
that is incorrect, as others have said that way does not work given that you must ensure the target is under the template. The rules also call out actually checking using markers and finally the prohibition is on measuring distances such as range or ZOC, determining template placement isnt measurement obviously
I'm inclined to agree with Daboarder simply because the rules do not stipulate what happens if you guess the centre wrong and the target isn't under the template. If it said the shot was cancelled I'd totally be on board. But it doesn't. So if speculative fire (and direct template weapons) require me to place the template down and adjust accordingly. I don't see why you couldn't with any template weapon for simplicity sake.
+1 for the should be pick a point and then measure to see who is covered. although I normally play and see it played as place the template and shuffle it.
From the wiki The third bullet point clearly states that you place the template down when you are declaring the attack, not that you declare a centre point and then place the template. The sequence should go "I'm shooting this model" - this is the main valid target of the attack *place template* Nothing else features
Seconded. In particular, there is no provision anywhere in the rules for picking the centre point of a Spec Fired grenade and then having to move it to catch the target trooper.
Except your not necessarily 'shooting this model'. So it's "I'm shooting.... *places template* here" if it's targetless. Then during resolution you measure to the focus/centre. That ellipsis hides how much 'figuring' your meta allows while placing the template. Honestly, it's largely irrelevant how liberal or strict your meta is with placing the template: so long as everyone does it the same way, it's works. I err to 'fuck it be as liberal as possible' because it's the easiest to rule on: anything stricter than that requires you to judge whether your opponent has met or exceeded the criteria you've set.
And the idle wont cover it. Because the declaration is the target to whome you measure all dist which means you get to put it where you flipping want (provided the target is under it of course)
