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Chicks dig giant robots: TAG thread!

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Wildgit, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    They don't get assisted fire, and that's huge, far more than the -3 to dodge. Su Jian with their high bs, high mobility, good weapons, would be a pure murder machine with Marksmanship L2 added on top of that.
     
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  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Exactly. It's a gamey power levels thing. Wish we got more of those over here... Making the Batroid TAGs remotes would be pretty clutch.
     
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  3. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    You guys are such powergamers. Overlords are not REMs for the same reason the Su Jian isn't a REM. No assisted fire for your already powerful units.

    I'll add here that I do like light TAGs with extra maneuverability. Climbing plus and super-jump are SO useful on TAGs. They make it much harder to hide from your TAGs.

    Thats why the Seraph and Xenodrone are so powerful. Being able to jump around and strike opponents prone on roofs or otherwise hiding behind cover is awesome.
     
    #43 Death, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Counter-argument: Unidrons should've been Light Infantry with Remote Presence.
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Would be interesting to see how Onyx would have played in that circumstance... I can see your logic though.
     
  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Badly: not being hackable helps little a defensive Fireteam of cheerleaders/overwatchers (with access to Tinbot and VERY good BTS), and activating Dogged means "ko => go prone" has no use whatsoever to the Unidrons, and they would lose Supportware. The only advantage would be losing the -3 to dodge from being a Remote... and they usually do not dodge, prefering to fire and eat the damage as needed.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, being a REM is an upgrade, even without considering the discount that Unidrons get for being REM instead of LI. The situation would be the same for Karakuri, Su-Jian and Overdron.
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You don't go prone when you go Dogged. Also, they'd gain the ability to go prone... there's a lot of rooptop perches that aren't good sniper spots for Unidrons because you can't go prone with them.

    The loss of supportware would hurt them, though the Tinbot would still be useful for buffing/protecting the linked hackers.
     
  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Precisely my point: if you are not a remote, you might decide to let the dude drop KO, knowing he will go prone. Remotes do not, so unless its near the end of the enemy's turn, you just activate Dogged.

    Going prone is not the only way to gain cover. Sure thing, it is automatic and hard to question, but having 1/3 of the profile "covered" and in contact with what gives you cover (the floor) is enough (and it's RAW). Geometry! In the end, it gives a lot of advantages to work with triangles in infinity (unless you are lazy and carry sniper rifles, those don't tend to need to check for distance often).

    The only linked hackers a Unidron Fireteam can have are the H+ Legate and the Hacker Nexus. Both at once, sure, but... Why? The Legate, if you wanna link him, you want the spitfire... and the nexus hacker is better out of the fireteam to give the supportware so they shoot a little less badly. Ofc, in this scenario we are contemplating they would not be hackable, but they still have a Forward Observer profile, so why place a hackable piece inside a non-hackable fireteam? Sure thing, it gives you more flexibility, but I feel the disadvantages outweight (marginally) the advantages.
     
  10. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about gaining Partial Cover from the floor? Because every time somebody brings this up, a huge debate starts.
     
  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Sigh. It's powergaming intentional misreading, and no it is not RAW. I'm really tired of having to watch this get argued with powergamers constantly. Infinity is not a good game for powergaming.
     
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  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nobody I've ever met plays it that way. Is this another one of those Euro "gotcha" things they spring on people at the Interplanetario that have no basis in rules?

    As far as the hackers go, it's useful to have fireteam hackers because SSL2. And, in this case, protecting them with tinbots.
     
  13. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Hey, don't look at me. I ask every time I have a tournament outside of my usual zone how they play it, and I don't even enter into the debate: local warcor+playtester+local tournaments arbiter says it goes that way, I believe him.

    That being said, it's quite situational to get cover from that (it's a very narrow band), being far more common (by a looooong way) to get it from an elevation (like the usual scenery's barriers) or because you are prone.
     
  14. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    yeah it aint RAW
     
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  15. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Don't minimize it. It's an intentional misreading of the rules to gain cover where there is clearly not meant to be any. Whether there are powergamers trying the same BS elsewhere or not is not important. It's neither the intention nor the letter of the rules.

    It sucks that FAQs have to play whack-a-mole with intentional misreadings like this, taking time away from things that are actually nuanced and tricky that need answers. That would be why so many of us get pretty grouchy when someone tries to powergame.

    @Hecaton, Yankee living and playing in Europe here. That kind of crap happens in the US quite a bit too, definitely not just a euro thing.
     
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  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The ambiguous nature of many of the rules passages perpetuates this, unfortunately.
     
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  17. Cry of the Wind

    Cry of the Wind Well-Known Member

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    The worst part is that everything I have read in the last couple months does not take up pages of FAQ like most people seem to think it does. I have seen tons of hate put towards Hecaton but fully sympathize with his position. My efforts in Dropfleet Commander have resulted in a much cleaner rule set and I see no reason why this one can't be cleared up equally.
     
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  18. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Its a translated game.

    You ask the question get the answer and keep on playing.

    Pages and pages of arguing because you are trying to read it an alternative way. Then taking the road that says "well its badly written" is just useless.

    The primary purpose of asking a rules question should be to determine how it is supposed to be played not argue and fight that your super special interpretation os correct.

    Its an attitude the community has lost recently much to the games detriment
     
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  19. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Not entirely. It indicates points that could be made more clear.

    And secondary purpose is to provide feedback so that you (including personally you) wouldn't have to answer same questions dozens of times every season for years to come.

    If you think it gets in the way of having good games, why are you opposed to radically fix the actual issue instead of bashing people who want reading the rules to be sufficient to resolve any arguments, ideally?

    As to why it happens. Because we are spoiled by game makers who finally got the memo that people hate bickering about rules, hate depending on TO's (who are often not neutral party at all) rulings, absolutely hate answering the same questions every week to the point some less virtuous members of communities outright tell newbros to f*** off rather than going through it all again (yes, some communities aren't stellar, I have to admit). And hate waiting for years for paper releases to come out in order to have some stuff fixed even though it's almost 2018 and we live in a digital world.

    Even the-company-not-to-be-named which normally gave little to no thought to competitive woes has finally gotten it and rewritten their mess from the very core, that should be saying something.

    Yes, but like I said, we're living in modern age where feedback, information sharing and, if need be, crowdfunding are easier to pull off than ever.

    At this point it's not even an excuse because English rules of Infinity are actually in a good shape. A lot of work has been done. Most things work without a question.
    There are always things that could be done better. But the game is improving steadily, and can continue to do so.

    I get that you people can manage your sessions just fine at this point and you don't care about any of this. But I don't get why do you feel you have to get dismissive and hostile every time someone suggests that the game could still use a bit of cleanup as if it will somehow ruin it for you. Or affect you at all.
     
    #59 Barrogh, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    If the rules-as-written don't lead the reader to the writer's intent they're poorly written rules.

    The worst thing about this game is the low quality of the written rules, and I'm very interested in cleaning that up. People who are opposed to that puzzle me.

    The point of arguing to rules-as-written is to communicate to the other party (potentially the person who wrote the rules themselves) that the rules are not communicating their ideas effectively. We as a community cannot rely on unofficial sources, such as posts by CB employees on forums, to make the ruleset playable.
     
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