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Changes I would personally make to N4

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Hachiman Taro, Jul 19, 2021.

  1. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Wishlisting changes?
    Tip of the iceberg on top of my head:
    1. Change Crits to +6 Damage on the first Save (i.e. EXP only benefits for 1 roll)

    2. Guided becomes a Profile thing and not a Weapon upgrade.
      If you have Guided on the Profile you have an extra weapon with AP+DA DAM14 Circular Impact Template that can BS Attack without LOF on Targeted State enemies, basically calling in an airstrike, makes way more sense than guided ammo does right now (Guided Pistols lol).
      A successful Guided Attack also consumes Targeted State.

    3. Fix to MI pricing.
      All MI's baseline cost is too high relative to both HI and elite LI for no apparent reason, seems like a "spreadsheet formula error".
      Someone needs to double check why.

    4. Strategic Use of Command Tokens.
      First use is free. Up to one additional option can be purchased for a Command Token.
      Supressive Fire option expanded to up to 4 Troopers (same as a Coordinated Order would allow).

    5. Hacking:
      Switch DAM values on Oblivion and Cabonite.
      KHDs ignore Firewalls on ARO.
    It doesn't take much to make the game significantly less skewed towards a few specific outliers.
     
    #41 Teslarod, Jul 21, 2021 at 3:52 PM
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021 at 4:01 PM
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  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I don't think number 3 is entirely accurate.

    As for number 3, it's a lot more complicated than it seems. I'll avoid making this lengthy, but suffice to say that some MI (the older ones) seem to still have the discount from being 4-2. The costs otherwise tend to be in line with LI. E.g. Ye Mao vs Karhu is perfectly in line with each other (Karhu are just better optimised)
    Costs shouldn't be in line with HI since HI has that whole Hackable thing going on.

    In either case, the problem isn't with the troop type so much as that there's a problem with most single-wound units above 20 points (that don't have special skills to offset the risk). A bunch of things can kill them from stray chance where as units with specific abilities such as camouflage or NWI do not suffer this risk to the same extent or with certain abilities and optimised profiles gain enough performance to offset the risk. Sometimes even when they're not in a Fireteam.

    I think the poster child for this problem can easily be Kamau. The sniper profile is well beyond the price increase compared to the other profiles better.

    Obviously, I don't agree with number 5, as I've outlined a bunch of times. I hate how static and ARO-centric hacking was in N3
     
  3. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    This is a very simple change that does a lot to reign in exterminatus. Huge thumbs up.

    Whats a successful attack though? Honestly I'd go further and just say "an attack". Do we have any examples that are consumed on success rather than on action?

    I'd go further. A simple 'flame' attack (I guess they'd have to bring that back) touching a model could be sufficient to burn it, and/or the burnt state could be a full cancellation of camo and mimetism. Both is probably too much.

    Camo has been an issue for the game for a long time imo. Punches down extremely well due to mimetism. Survives well against high tier stuff well due to mimetism and the coin flip that is discover (plus infiltrated positions) making elite units barely better than regular ones at rooting them out. Would love a better soft counter than sensor as it genuinely still feels like the 'always good' choice it has always been alongside the other always good choice of model spam.
     
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  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Technically Camo and Mimetism are separate skills now, although in practice that's only true on two models with the Long Ya and Helots sporting Camo with no Mimetism


    This isn't really viable because you have to take into account BTS9 units, with a specific mind to the Avatar, can get Firewall bonuses. Makes the high BTS TAGs (and HI) find hacking AROs very anemic when you take the damage off the one AP program which is supposed to be the counter to high defensive stats.

    Would be less of an issue if we had a wider variety of hacking programs rather than CB's N4 design which is "Oblivion the fuck out of everything that isn't Veteran"
     
    #44 Triumph, Jul 21, 2021 at 10:53 PM
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021 at 11:12 PM
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  5. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    ... and Libertos, Daylamis, Metros, Volunteers, Rokots. Although of all these only the Long Ya is able to use the camo skill more than once.
     
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  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Huh that's a few more than I thought existed.
     
  7. Sangarn

    Sangarn TRIUMcorp CEO
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    My contribution to this lollist:

    _AP round down (plz)

    we need the camo guess game back:
    _bring back normal camo marker (mim-3) for mim zero unit (helot daylami etc.. bring up their pts or not I don't care)
    _mines can be deployed prone

    shock should be remade entirely:
    _remove immun shock on all multiwound models (2W,3W) and NWI
    except very few profiles and IA sectorial
    _remove shock from SMG/HRMC
    _remove the BS atk shock skill
    _remove shock from mines/dropbear/koala/chestmines except on SWC profiles

    _combi/MULTI should have +6 in 0-8 RB to compensate the lack of shotgun remove the shotgun ont he few combi+shotgun profile

    _MULTI rifle should have +1 dmg

    _remove the DTW on light shotgun

    _bring back the delay in ZoC for SS

    Vaul just announced a test league with crit +8 dmg,
    I think those are bad solutions for the crit mechanic because it create in the same situation cases when you can auto wound (HMG VS impetuous for exemple) or not (HMG VS TAG)
    a situation when you do something without a roll or not depending on the profil of the target isn't at infinity's core logic
    it also ask you to do more math during the game

    I would propose to give crit shock + AP + remove the +3 ARM from cover
    this way low dmg weapons crit can damage even a jotum
    other weapon that are already powerfull (ML HRMC MULTI HMG) are not help much but they don't need help from the crit: wining the ftf is enough

    on a final note I think giving to the active player one reroll for one dice at the cost of one command token could help reducing the randomness
    if implemented, reroll for doctor and engineer on cube/rem pres should have a free reroll OR doesn't inflict a wound if failed
     
    #47 Sangarn, Jul 22, 2021 at 12:16 AM
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021 at 12:34 AM
  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    On strategic use, bring back the option to use EVO programs with it.
     
  9. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    What kind of monster uses MODs that aren't multiples of 3s?
    +8? What is this sorcery?
    Like seriously, connect the dots about THE Infinity core mechanic *Tohaa conspiracy theory music playing in the background*
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Oh oh oh! I know! I know the answer to this question!

    It's Corvus Belli!

    ECM: Guided (-8)
     
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  11. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    All the MULTI should be changed from AP/Shock or DA mode to ARM or BTS mode. End of story.
    And SMG are still overperforming for their cost. They are soft MULTI for a mere chain rifle cost.

    Edit: BTW, Guided is already generally removed by a successful attack. It's called DEAD state.
     
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  12. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Thought of a couple more.

    Superjump Troopers should be able to fall up to their first move value (without damage).

    Climbing should only count the vertical movement (get a free base width at the top). Simpler to measure.
     
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  13. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    since fire ammo don't exist anymore that why i suggested creating a "fragile" skill/ trait (that mimics the em/burnt n3 gear shutdown effects) among my other pointless ideas XD
     
  14. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    I second both.
     
  15. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Those are pretty good and simple.
     
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