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Can we talk about Nisses?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by meikyoushisui, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    When is your guy's next tourney? I'll give it a go.
     
  2. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    In the Bay? One tomorrow, one Aug 10, one Aug 17th. Aug 17th is probably the best pick... More "typical". The one tomorrow is geared for beginners, the one on Aug 10 is using narrative scenarios iirc.
     
    Judge Dredd likes this.
  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    Yeah I hear you. I do think Vanilla can do defense just fine, but I also just weirdly dislike AVA1, 1-Wound units. I guess I just like the symmetry/redundancy of being able to access things in pairs.
     
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  4. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Vanilla weak? Well, after reading that MO were crap, this is Vanilla turn now?

    Really, it not even remotely true. I've played Vanilla last season for 4 months before going MO and it was already powerful. Now, it is even more crazy. The Bolt rework of the profiles made them really interesting. The CoC one is just golden when you desire to field an offensive lieutenant. It's not only Joan, you have access to all our HIs, you can mix them with our best LI and you still have access the shit tons of remotes we're used to.

    Where a troop suffer comparison and slots are hard to find in each sectorials, they can easily find a place in Vanilla because you can really find new combinations.
    Yes, the AVA are tight for nearly every unit we have and it was something I had a lot problems with for a long time but now? In fact, I find that's what make Vanilla balance with its sectorials and the other armies. Vanilla hasn't FT but can spread it's strong units accross the board.
    Facing Varuna? You can mix Aquila to remove the Kamau with a Bolt or two to deal with ZC Jammers. Or you can go for a Squalo with HGL and Spec fire all the cute Fusiliers and still field a knight with Spitfire and all the support a TAG can need.

    I'm playing the spare partner for the guy who ended 3rd for the Merovingian satellite and who is going for Interplanetario and I defeated him with those two lists:
    Hunting party:
    PanOceania
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    GUARDA DE ASSALTO Spitfire + Heavy Flamethrower, D-Charges + AUXBOT_2 / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 51)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_2 Light Shotgun + Eclipse Light Grenade Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 6)
    TEUTONIC KNIGHT (NCO) Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 39)
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    REGULAR (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (ODD: Optical Disruptor) Combi Rifle, Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    BOLT (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    NISSE HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    6 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Firefight:
    PanOceania
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    ECHO-BRAVO Red Fury / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 25)
    AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    ORDER SERGEANT (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Engineer, Chain of Command) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    BULLETEER Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 23)
    REGULAR Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    REGULAR Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    CRUSADER MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    AKAL COMMANDO Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 21)
    AKAL COMMANDO Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0 | 21)
    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    5.5 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    And this is the next one he'll face for Frostbyte/Unmasking:
    PanOceania
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    CROC MAN (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 32)
    HEXA Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 30)
    CUTTER MULTI HMG / . (2.5 | 115)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    CROC MAN (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 31)
    MULEBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    REGULAR (Infinity Spec-Ops) (12 XP) (Chain of Command, Engineer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    6 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Oh! And you can play De Fersen. I tried him, he strictly owned a Heckler KHD for one entire turn (7 orders) of cyberduel and left him immobilised until the last order. Don't overextend him, of course but this guy is just absurdly powerful as a solopiece.
     
  5. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust

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    Monstruckers now, too! 13 points for a chain rifle with drop bears and an irregular order to toss them! Also comes with an SMG to go into suppressive fire if needed.
     
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  6. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    I think people who disregard vanilla PanO really aren't looking closely enough at Joan. I typically consider a regular order + flash pulse to be worth ~8 points, so taking a Warcor + Tech bee can be thought of as an 8 point discount already, on top of that you can take a Monstrucker instead of a Machinist saving another 2 points (not even to mention that you're getting a climbing plus specialist with drop bears), as well as a Helot . Her "actual cost" is more like 30-35 points which is insane for a 2W + NWI trooper with BS15.

    And don't get me started on the free coordinated order - coordinated attacks with multiple SWC weapons make strong ARO troopers cry.
     
  7. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Two tr hmgs go a long way to making up for a lack of defensive link options
     
  8. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    My theory is that there are multiple different sets of point costs, and when they change the costs, they don't update all the troops, just the ones they are actually creating (or updating for some reason). It was pretty obvious with drop bear costs on Bolts.

    Also the point system is way outdated, and now pretty much useless.

    I suppose they put together a troop, with main features in mind, using the current points formula, and also define how much should it cost, then add bloat or discounts until the point cost matches the intended value.
     
  9. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    I think that skills, weapons and equipment haven't a fixed value but change.
    Is much different to have a msv l2 In a wip12 or in a wip14 or put a bsg on a moderator than on a camo to
    And I think at same time some equipments can change the cost of all the unit, not only the value of the bearer. Akbar doctor has a different impact in a hi 2wound fireteam than a paramedic or a doctor.
     
  10. PsychoCrane

    PsychoCrane Active Member

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    While I do believe that MO is in desperate need of some loving right now ( I'm trying to be quite positive here) Vanilla PanO is in a very good state: a lot of options, new toys and most importantly fun to play and fun to play against. Good job, CB!

    Back to topic:
    In comparison to the Nisse the Epsilon just looks like the more optimised profile for 4 pts less. That's not that bad since one has to consider the whole faction to evaluate points/SWC:
    Why does the Rui Shi costs 1,5 SWC in Dashat? It's linkable!
    Why does it cost 1,5 SWC in Ikari? MSV with Yuan Yuan spam!
    Why 1,5 SWC in JSA? Because they can't have nice things.

    Not to mention that profiles don't seem to change point costs in NA2 armies.

    The grenzer MSR profile is straight up worse than the Epsilon and costs 2 pts more. I can't see a clear pattern in points costs and I stopped looking for one. Infinity's biggest boon is the use of the d20 and all of the randomness it brings to the table. I think that is a good thing and a reason why suboptimal profiles won't lose you the game.
     
  11. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Weapon point costs don't scale, and only some equipment does.

    Can you point to any profiles that provide any evidence for this? Because I don't see any.

    It's intellectually dishonest to compare SWC costs, which are set by hand, and point costs, which are set by formula.
     
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  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    This can be read as "no matter what you play or how you play, it's a game in which only rolling dice decide"... if that were true, I doubt the game would even need models or rulebooks...
    That being said, the game is terribly random, and for many that is not a boon, precisely (for me, however, the "ultrastable" roll a crapload of D6 you do with Imperial Guard in wh40k is also a meh...).
     
    Urobros likes this.