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Can we talk about Nisses?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by meikyoushisui, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Or given faction has even more efficient options and consider Securitates subpar choice (due to them being spoiled with even better tools).
     
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  2. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Funny enough actually Warcor is cheapest while one of most relevant models which you can take for this cost (other competitor being Morlocks or Ghazi).

    Have you not won/lost game due to lucky/unlucky Flash Pulse ?
     
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  3. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    You ever saw Nisse HD on table o0
    Not to mention those linking options ;P
     
  4. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

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    Every release I'm reminded just how little I really understand the point formula.
    The Epsilon sniper looks like it should be ~32 points, if I use what I think the costs are based on the Kamau, Black Friar and Nisse.
    It's a little depressing because I can (assuming my number are right) see exactly where every cost for the Kappa, Delta, Gamma and Gangbuster goes.
    Possibly a case of the MSV 2 cost being a little elastic depending on total defensive stat (ARM + BTS) spend...
     
  5. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they don't,
    but 'Peacekeeper' might still give a discount,
    even if it does not affect actual ITS games.
     
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  6. Pinky

    Pinky Active Member

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    The power creep is real and CB thinks they'll make more money if they make units stronger as then people will jump the faction train. It's not about the formula or anything else. It's the same reason why Kamau MSV2 MSR can be linked to 4 Fusiliers.
    As mentioned before, Order Sargents are 13 points and are worse in every way than Securitates. And it has nothing to do with balance within sectorials considering MO is very, very far from unbalanced.
    Hopefully we will see a general rebalance sometime soon, although I'm not counting on it.
     
  7. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I think people should wait to see the other half to be released before screaming about power creep.

    As it stands now, it looks like O-12 needs the optimised profiles because it looks like they can barely hit above 13-14 orders, without being very luckstre, compared to other factions.

    Of course those are just my first impressions.
     
  8. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Multiterrain is a bullshit nothing skill until you encounter some terrain and then it's sweet.
     
  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    which means people will use heavily the optimized profiles, and the less so will remain in the shelves, if they are bought at all...

    And that was the same problem Aleph has always faced, for example, or a problem Invincible Army needed solved in another way because the testers would use the cheap units, instead of the HI ones (this was revealed by Gutier in an spanish interview, btw, before IA's release).

    specially now that the Shasvastii can deploy zones that f* you if you don't have the skill... I find it funny how it was decided that the more limiting, english version, of the Difficult terrain (single move order) was "right" instead of the spanish one ("can't repeat move short orders", so move + dodge was possible).
     
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  10. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Oh, I'm not complaining about O-12 in general. I have the feeling that the army will be well balanced. What I'm complaining is that they just made a bad feeling toward a profile that has already some difficulties to exist, even in its own sectorials. Would the Delta Sniper cost 31 points, I wouldn't have said anything.
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

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    One word: Dazers.
     
  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Was literally about to write this.
    Dazer against the correct units, placed on a choke point, is one of the most rage-inducing things my opponents have ever encountered.
     
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  13. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Nisse are fine. They're in a decent place by themselves, 4 points isn't going to make or break a list or a game. Vanilla PanO could use an overhaul imo.
     
  14. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    You mean like the one it's been getting for 3 books?
     
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  15. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    its a step in the right direction but it's still lacking something or an equivalent of something that is the corner stone of most vanilla lists functioning: Warband.

    I'm not saying give PanO war band or smoke but a semi-decent corner guard, with a template weapon would go a long way to make Vanilla panO really viable.
     
  16. SpectralOwl

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    ASA was updated. NCA was updated. MO was updated. VIRD was added. Vanilla was not overhauled. Basically only the last 2 had noticeable impact on Vanilla, and a lot of that was still blunted by CB's new focus on making Sectorials complete within themselves at the expense of non-Fireteam compositions. I've really looked at it in the past, trying to make it work, but PanO just doesn't measure up to its own Sectorials thanks to the unbelievably limited variety in its troops not making up for the loss of firepower that Fireteams bring, and even extra toolbox capabilities from ALEPH loaners. VIRD's a step in the right direction since Helots, Zulu Cobras etc. are things that ASA cannot duplicate the capabilities of, but at the moment I'm in agreement with @MikeTheScrivener here, Vanilla needs some work. Not more mixed links and FTO profiles, a serious examination of how certain troops overlap with each other's capabilities and how to broaden the capabilities of PanO's full list in comparison with its Sectorials.
     
  17. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    Updates to Acon, NCA, MO and even Corregidor all disagree with you. Acon got discontinued... Not a lot of financial incentive to powercreep them... But they're an absolutely brutal ITS competitor. Selecting one poorly built unit (Order Sergeants) and holding them up as an example of everything being broken is disingenuous. Order Sergeants were weirdly costed 4 years ago too, so they're not a good example of any kind of current trend.

    I'm not a Vanilla expert, but then again, very few people seem to be. I'm not sure Vanilla's in as bad a place as you say. There have been steady additions to Joan's Irregular crew, plus she now has a cheap Chain of Command option. What I'd really like to see, in order to help inform the conversation, is an ITS writeup done by a Vanilla player at a major event.
     
  18. PsychoCrane

    PsychoCrane Active Member

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    Something like auxilias maybe?
     
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  19. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I've toyed with the idea of playing Vanilla, but the lack of defensive tools always draws me away. At this point we have plenty of 1-off options like the Regualr minelayer, a single helot, a single Zulu jammer, there isn't enough consistency to make it feel like anything other than a grab bag and a roll of the roulette table when the opponent deploys their Alpha strike.

    wouldn't it be nice if they weren't AVA 2. like maybe if Vanilla was re-evalued and slight adjustments like this were made
     
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  20. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    I agree with this. 2x Auxilia, 2x Acon Minelayers are the first things I add in the few times I've done Vanilla. Pricier than a warband, but they also offer great defensive strengths without risking their Regular Order. These are great Vanilla offerings.
     
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