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Can we talk about Nisses?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by meikyoushisui, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    So here's the Epsilon's statline: https://imgur.com/4tIsPdi

    Here's the Nisse's statline: https://imgur.com/nysoBGl

    Can we talk about how losing a point of PH and ARM and multiterrain somehow means you can get Bioimmunity and a Nanopulser and still be 4 points cheaper? Am I missing something?

    Are we going to see the Nisse recosted sometime soon?
     
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  2. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust

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    *Sigh* This again?

    They are different units in different factions, surrounded by other models with different tools and abilities.
     
  3. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust

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    If the Nisse do get a rework, it'll be when Svalarheima drops. No use in complaining in the meantime.
     
  4. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    That's fine. I'm not saying Nisses are good or bad. I'm saying their costing is way out of whack with current units.
     
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  5. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Additionally, there could be built in future proofing for SWF Fireteams in the cost, whereas Epsilons may always be solo pieces.
     
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  6. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    I wouldnt bother trying tk rebuild costs. The units role and ability to perform that role within the context of a list is far more important thag a point or two here or there
     
  7. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    The ability to Fireteam does not have a cost in the point formula anywhere else in the game (though the Haris and Duo skills themselves often do), so there is no reason we should expect it does here.
     
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  8. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Well, so far it's doing the Nisse's job for 4 points cheaper. To be fair, the Nisse never really been a unit I've looked at and said, "you know what, another army should have this, but for even less and with the defense of a template weapon."
     
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  9. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    And how does that fit in the army? We dont know yet. I wouldnt stress.

    What im getting at is taking securitate and complaining they are undercosted vs say order sergeants. But you see a damn site more order sergeants in an MO list because of what they do for MO than you see securitate because they dont do the same things for hollowmen (or support them much at all really)
     
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  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    What is the value of a point formula if CB just ignores it, either through commission by actively tweaking costs, or by omission in not rolling through changes back to old armies?
     
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  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Im not saying they ignore it. Im saying theres no point getting irritated by a couple of points here or there. Especially given we dont know the formula and it apparently has rounding up and down as well as scaling points.

    Its very possible there are additives and negatives based on what is and isnt in a faction or that the rounding is applied before or after conglomeration of the cost.

    And ultimately that 4 pts means nothing when it doesnt make the nisse worse or change its role as a gun toting swc carrier
     
    #11 daboarder, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  12. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Yes, stop comparing across factions! PanOceania is the big guns faction, so clearly their big gun troops will be a little better than their cross-faction counterpa....

    Oh wait. Nevermind.
     
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  13. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    we have more and bigger gun platforms than any other faction....

    But please, dont let me stop the sky falling because of the cost of a warcor
     
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  14. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    No no, you misunderstand. PanOceania isn't just the big guns faction, its the lack of options faction. They are defined, as a friend of mine put it, by a lack of access to useful secondary options such as nanopulsars. As such, the Nissie 2.0 is perfectly balanced as it should be.
     
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  15. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    There's no evidence to suggest this, and rounding could not result in more than 10% of the cost being lost.
     
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  16. SpectralOwl

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    Don't know the full maths, but I think that the Nisse has about 6 percent better odds of surviving a bad gunfight thanks to the improved Dodge and ARM saves. May well be worth the points against anyone with White Noise or good template game. Not to mention Multiterrain seems to cost a point (might be more, my baseline was Metros which aren't MI), and is a way bigger help for MI than anything else when the board maker remembers to include terrain rules.
     
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  17. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    a lack of options?

    You're living about a year in the past. PanO is nothing but options and alternative ways to get at the opponent since every single one of our lists got an update in the last 12 months. They are just typically on different profiles.

    But if you want some counter examples; Santiago, Zulu Cobra Jammer, Dart, CSU...the list can and does go on
     
  18. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
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    Epsilon doesn't get a hacker option!
     
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  19. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    nor a paramedic
    nor a presumably eventual KHD
     
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  20. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    The one for whom I'm feeling very sad is the BF Sniper. +1CC and a CCW seem to worth Bioimmunity and Mimetism...