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Can Someone explain to me why Suryats are bad?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by DaRedOne, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    I believe they deserve both Fatality L2 and NBW, but this is based on fluff, and I'm not sure how balanced it'd be.

    Anyway, if I were to start fixing problems with MAF I wouldn't start with their HI. They're both perfectly playable.
     
  2. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    I especially didn't talk about rules but about fluff, neither more nor less. I don't know the point cost for the skills.
     
  3. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    I think you have the wrong idea about full auto in relation to professional military types. If the morats were hard boiled do or die military professionals than basically the morat rule should be full auto L2. Heck the only flavor text we have is that it's for pushing the weapon to it's limit without sacrificing accuracy which most definitely isn't wildly firing your gun.

    The #1 most important thing in infantry combat is to establish overwhelming fire superiority. Which translates to firing way more bullets than the other guy. Which then allows your forces to move up and engage the enemy in positions of advantage. So if you youtube combat footage of some infantry guy just laying down sheets fire, he isn't wasting bullets because he is undisciplined or scared he is pinning the enemy in place, taking on enemy aggression and giving his guys a chance to bound up. The enemy gets the chance to either poke out and get smoked by MG fire or get flanked and smoked that way.

    The Sogorat is the perfect Morat unit to do that very tactic and should be there for it.

    So honestly the Kriza Boracs is the only unit in Infinity that has any understanding of ground combat at the infantry level.
     
  4. Styx

    Styx Cat.IE~~

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    Morats are xenos, not human. You uses the description of a human infantry corp model as example, @DaRedOne knows perfectly the escense of Morats, they are xenos and they born for the war. All of them, have a code in their military service, all be are veterans, but the most veteran he/she want's to show his/her combat-tactics-lead on the battle to all Morat soldiers,then, all of them go to follow the best way to do the same all in one strike, if this lead/soldier goes to dead, all of the followers want's to finish the job in all cost, and a new leader o the best veteran, showing other expamples to do the job. All Morats know how to kill anithing, inclusive without weapons, using the nude hands, like a human soldier or not soldier... but the esence of this xenos are from their brain, strengh, lead/command, presence and service, they have been inspired by martial laws in/out on the battlefield, their society have been ready to go in the way of the war.

    Also, all Morats have been prepared for the hunting games... all of them forming a hunt squads in all terrains and disciplines. And all of them, they using the tradition of their culture when marching on a battlefield: looking the victims, push all victims in a trap way, and ambush with all units to the end.

    So, wathever exclusive skill common or rare like some NWI, Dogged, Veteran2, Marskman1-2, more natural born warriors, more number2 (bcs MAF have the more fireteams in the game), executive order (Rasyats for example), more stealth (Zerats-Rodoks), miners (Zerats-Kurgats), sithx senses1, advanced command, chain of command.... This skill examples are worth it for MAF profiles, and expose the real lore in the table for this xenos. Really, i want to see more skilled Sogarats with chain of command or marksman in the case for combat, or in this case, Suryats with Veteran2 or numer2 more chain command, (¿bioinmunity?... oh god.), if i want a really skill to go for "combat" im gald to see on they, are the hyperdinamics... not on a single +1 on PHY, they supposed go in a exoskeleton armor and most advanced than a Sogarats in terms of equipment.
     
    Stiopa likes this.
  5. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    NWI invalidates the existing Auto-medkit. I rather like the Automed - Feuerbach propped up behind cover holding a zone, loses some wounds and falls prone *behind the cover*. Auto-med is a 75% chance he's back to controlling that point again.
     
  6. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    If Morats didn't focus on overwhelming firepower the human sphere would consider war against them a duck hunt. I don't care what planet your from or how long you've spent training, if you don't own the battlefield you don't win....at all. If anything if you want to say Morats be Morat'n then maybe they are not as awesome as they thought they were now that they have encountered a race of beings that know how to win a fight and conquering the human sphere isn't going very well. Like how Samurai were well designed to fight Samurai but nothing else.

    So maybe over costed and bland/inefficient is Morats to Morat fluff in the context of Infinity lol.

    So scrape MAF and do Morats post conflict with the human sphere where they had to learn how to actually fight an enemy that can hold their own (looking at you noodle body Tohaa).
     
    Stiopa and Hecaton like this.
  7. Leviathan

    Leviathan Weird purple monstrosity

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    I think possibly the best way to reflect the high skill/training level of the Soggy is to give them Sixth Sense and/or Marksmanship. Not MML2, thats probably too much, but MML1 would be something. Fatality L1 would also be fairly reflective of their skill - not to mention the size of their guns. Compare a Soggy HMG to a Vanguard HMG and tell me they're the same calibre.
     
    paraelix likes this.
  8. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    Well they supposedly use maximum firepower to sweep away the enemy so if that doesn't say full auto then I don't know what would.
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  9. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Actually, with the abundance of KHD running around, AHD is kind of rare. But now that mary problems exists, MO really needs a KHD.

    Suryats after the N3 rework are pretty awesome. They use to cost around 57 points, that was real bad and never take territory. Suryats are now the price of other basic HI with a good selection of options and being morats, they are immune to isolation which is the easiest way to disrupt a HI link. If your going to play the MAF, making a Suryat death ball is one of the highlights.
     
    #69 Death, Aug 9, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  10. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    In your meta, perhaps ;)
     
  11. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Well, metas are different. AHD will tend to be rarer if you have enough low tech faction players.
     
  12. Leviathan

    Leviathan Weird purple monstrosity

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    I'm more likely to take AHDs than KHDs if i can swing the points difference... Oblivion is way too useful.
    This is a general comment, of course, since in CA the KHDs are attached to awesome characters. :)
     
  13. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    And Suryats are immune to isolation (and therefore oblivion). Thats such a sweet advantage.
     
    Leviathan likes this.
  14. Skjarr

    Skjarr Well-Known Member

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    I actually don't mind Suryats. I've had great fun with Kornak + Raktorak + 3 Suryats in the past.
    Raktorak saves about 20pts at the cost of a weak link and Kornaks Strategos is damn useful.
    They aren't the most interesting unit in the world or even the faction but they do their job OK.

    Someone mentioned it earlier but a 3rd Soggy profile geared for CQB would be amazing. Give it some insane shotgun and maybe some PH15 grenades.
     
  15. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Therefore you have Bit and Kiss.
     
  16. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher

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    Except there's also the old addage of 'short, controlled bursts'. There's a big difference between controlled violence and all out aggression, and my opinion is that MAF should be on the 'controlled violence' side of things. Again, I want them to get a buff, I want them to get new skills, but lets compare the new Raicho with the highest DAM shotgun in the game (the only DAM16 shotty so far) with a hypothetical full auto Raicho: Both are awesome attack pieces, but with full auto she's just good at straight out shooting stuff, while with the shotty and the mine dispenser the Raicho can actually play both defense and offense better that it would with Full Auto (which gives very little reactive bonuses)

    So this is my point: I want MAF to have a good offensive and defensive game. I want to feel like I'm reaching out and punching folks every turn, wether active or reactive. Skills like Fatality, Minelayer, Marksmanship, and whatever else CB can cook up in the future feel, to me, more interesting than full auto.
     
  17. Geodron

    Geodron Well-Known Member

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    I think your sort of splitting hairs here to make your point. Controlled aggression would be just as much controlling the battlefield and as I said you have to control the enemy movement and terms through weight of fire. That could be a constant barrage of burst fire, it could be enflading fire, etc etc.

    In say a Haris Fireteam with two Sogorats with full auto, they would be "talking" using controlled sustained fire that would be used to overwhelm the enemy.

    Your problem is you see full auto and think Rambo but full auto is just a measure in a professional military sense to control an engagement. A MG on full auto doesn't just throw bullets all over the damn place like a video game. Even on cyclic fire those rounds are still landing basically where you want them to.

    Now I don't really think full auto should just be all over the place but at least with the Sogorats I think it has a home and purpose there.

    I also think Kurgats should get a D-charge launcher...