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Can Someone explain to me why Suryats are bad?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by DaRedOne, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I mean it. It just doesn't add up. I've seen people call Suryats 'sub par Mobile Brigadas' more than once and it just doesn't add up at all. Let's look at this:

    [​IMG] Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] SURYAT Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 37)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Lieutenant HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 45)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] SURYAT MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 37)

    4 SWC | 199 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    in comparison to this:

    [​IMG] Jurisdictional Command of Corregidor
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 40)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 43)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)

    4.5 SWC | 197 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Suryats pay 2 points more for a full link sporting the same guns, and what do they lose out on? 1 PH and the hacker, which is as good as he is bad, since while he does add a specialist to the team, he also adds a weakness.

    Meanwhile, Suryats have more CC, more BTS, are immune to isolation, loss of lieutenant AND pack more guns and fire ammo all around.

    Why do we hate these guys? It just doesn't make any sense to me now that I think about it. Sure, Brigadas have courage instead of religious and +1PH. And Suryats being ph 13 feels wrong... but... Really? that's it?that's the reason?

    I think these guys need more love. Let's talk cool ways to use suryats.
     
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  2. dlfleetw

    dlfleetw Well-Known Member
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    Now compare the more common Fireteam of Kornak and Raktorak SM.

    Yes less wounds, but even more flexibility that until StarCo MB never had.

    Like most HI links, they are a heavy investment in a sectorial that struggles with low cost orders to support them.
     
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  3. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    They suffer from "generic HI syndrome".

    They have no super special skills like Camouflage and Hiding, MSV, smoke, BS15, or Full Auto.

    They're not super bare bones dirt cheap, and they can't link with cheerleaders to bring that cost down.

    They're actually solid, but will get compared to things like Swiss Guards, Hsien (with or without Zhanying Haris), Zhuyongs, Riot Grrls, Crane+Celestial link, Asawira Duo, Al Fasid, Križpy Baçon etc. and come up lacking.

    Brigada, non-doctor Janissaries, Shang-Ji, and Orcs suffer from a similar problem.

    They also force you into a lower order count list which is usually harder to play than order spam, and a lot of people don't like HI links without KHD support, though you have Bit+Kiss now and MO won the last Interplanetario so I'm not sure that's as much of an option.
     
  4. Styx

    Styx Cat.IE~~

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    I would not consider the Suryats a bad IP, it is only in their sectorial of MAF where they can have better synergy in full core or the special of 3 + raktorak + kornak in a list of 10 (with kornakLT included) to 11 orders being very viable for LI, everything depends on how you add support orders/profiles them with an IL list. Another thing is to compare a core of 5 to the usual haris with suryat+raktorak+kornakLT, in which in the haris you can barely notice the difference with the rest, it is an IP with HMG or HRL as another and where you can have a list with they of more than 10 orders with cheap troops as the core of hungries party.

    If you want to take advantage in comparison with the other "special" IPs, the Suryats may be the most flexible to others, for the composition they have in forming the types of fireteams with the specials and their arsenal, do not forget the jungle terrain , then compare all the IPs with advantage categories on difficult terrain and the Suryats fall into that category with the following advantages:

    1- Common and special fireteam options.
    2- Rule of Morat.
    3- Best arsenal for composition, being flexible Ip's with special terrain.

    [​IMG] PanOceania
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]7
    [​IMG] TEUTONIC KNIGHT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 34)
    [​IMG] TEUTONIC KNIGHT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 36)
    [​IMG] TEUTONIC KNIGHT Spitfire / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 37)
    [​IMG] TEUTONIC KNIGHT Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] JOAN OF ARC Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 51)
    [​IMG] JOAN OF ARC Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2 | 53)
    [​IMG] JOAN OF ARC Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)

    8 SWC | 296 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    [​IMG] Yu Jing
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] SÙ-JIÀN Spitfire, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (2 | 59)
    [​IMG] SÙ-JIÀN Heavy Shotgun, Light Flamethrower, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 54)

    2 SWC | 113 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    [​IMG] Ariadna
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] MOBLOT Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT AP Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT Boarding Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT (CH: Mimetism) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT (Infiltration) Rifle, Light Shotgun E/Mauler / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT Engineer Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT Lieutenant Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT (Infiltration) AP Rifle, Light Shotgun, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] EQUIPE MIRAGE-5 . (2 | 69)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] MARGOT AP Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (37)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] DUROC 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / AP CC Weapon. (32)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT Lieutenant HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 29)
    [​IMG] MOBLOT (Sapper) HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 31)

    GROUP 3[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8
    [​IMG] MINUTEMAN Rifle, 2 Light Flamethrowers / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] MINUTEMAN AP HMG / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] MINUTEMAN Missile Launcher, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] MINUTEMAN Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 24)
    [​IMG] MINUTEMAN (Forward Observer) Rifle, 2 Light Flamethrowers / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] MINUTEMAN (Marksmanship L1, X-Visor) AP Rifle, 2 Light Flamethrowers / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] MINUTEMAN Lieutenant Rifle, 2 Light Flamethrowers / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] MINUTEMAN Lieutenant AP HMG / Pistol, CCW. (1 | 34)

    10.5 SWC | 589 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    [​IMG] ALEPH
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] ACHILLES MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 73)
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 73)
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)

    5 SWC | 296 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Now compare with this types of special IP's with terrain extras and weapons, other with core options in sectorials or as "solo rambos". The Suryats core are equilibrated to do all things, ¿you want CC expert? put Kornak con CC with the core and that's all.

    I consider them very good IP to ensure objectives and stay in place and heavily armored antihack with EVO and Bit on the army list. I would not place them as basic IP as the other factions have access, the complete core should be used more tactically than going to the rough, more than it seems, place them in a current mission as the Rescue and Hunting Party, and you will see how effective they are. The Suryats strengh are the special core without a doubt; raktorak and kornak, I have nothing to envy the rest of the factions only for this core option, when you have them in the middle of the table with the objectives.

    That's any list con you play with all sinergies can do; smoke advance, sensor/stalock bot (discover markers and targeting), repariring doct for IMN-2, canceling hack-atacks and killing them with Bit, and finally looking for a close firefigth and pushing buttons. You need only stay attention on all of your bonus to engage; bonus link+distances+mark state, on hack attacks the same: kalidoscope+breakwater+Maestro (with Bit out of range to Kiss in coordinated order with EVO) for killing any hacker. Just are different style playing with that synergie on this example with the rest factions in the same situation.
    [​IMG] Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] RAKTORAK Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] SURYAT HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 45)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 38)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] ANYAT K1 Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Smoke Grenades, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #4 Styx, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
    bladerunner_35 and DaRedOne like this.
  5. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I expected a bunch of negative stuff. Instead got well thought out arguments that will help me think better about how to use Suryats in the future. Thank you guys, keep it classy!

    I like your list @Styx I'll probably use it if I get any limited insertion ITS over here in the next few months.
     
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  6. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    They're just very sub-par out of MAF, MAF is where they shine because of the aforementioned fireteams. They're a bit generic (which Styx has covered very well), but they are great for their cost in MAF for sure, I know I would run them if I played MAF for example.
     
  7. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    You see despite calling them "sub par mobile brigada" I actually love them and throw them and their gorgeous models at a table at every opportunity (I'm also a fan of Brigada, so not really so much of a slur)

    This is my go to I'm not feeling very serious today and I'm going to show you what Morats are good for list:
    [​IMG] 1/2 A BRICK IN A SOCK
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]9
    [​IMG] KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] RAKTORAK Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] SURYAT HMG / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 44)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 37)
    [​IMG] YAOGAT (Fireteam: Haris) Combi Rifle + Panzerfaust / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 30)
    [​IMG] YAOGAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 36)
    [​IMG] YAOGAT (Number 2) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    However on a more sensible day I'll put this down

    [​IMG] Maybe you should try to do an objective today rather than trying to shoehorn in Yaogats at every opportunity, you KNOW they cost too much for links and yet you persist in doing so.
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] RAKTORAK Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] SURYAT HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 45)
    [​IMG] SURYAT MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] YAOGAT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (1.5 | 34)
    [​IMG] E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MORAT (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Suryat pros:
    Jungle terrain is extremely fluffy and of course subjectively useful, I'd actually like to see just Multi terrain as they are meant to be hyper elite train in any conditions assault troops of an interstellar empire but I suppose that's what Rodoks do using super jump.
    Morat is a great rule as it mean you can throw that special suryat link at things and you just need them to be alive really.
    Weapon options: the HRL, I didn't use this profile until the sculpt came out and now I just love it, fire in every direction and rangeband, fluffy and good and great in a duo where it isn't relying on the +1B.
    [​IMG]
    Off you F*** you smoke throwing 6 point deviant
    Special links: basically if you're going Suryat it's what you're going to take, it's just too good not to.

    Suryat Cons (compared with brigada):
    HOW? HOW ARE THEY HIGHER PHYS!?
    Morat:
    yes you're immune to Isolation but there is another state that generally comes along with it called Immobilised 2 and with your BTS of 6 halving to 3 and a brigada's 3 halving to 2 you're not really better insulated against it, you'll just have your order to keep you warm, better than nothing? Yes. Does the points cost scale well with morat on a vanguard? not in my opinion, if the morat rule didn't exist and I was in LOLt I'd probably be spending the regular orders I could muster on this group anyway. Religious works for you but every now and again you just want the giant power armoured monkey to see sense and hide.
    Special link: unless you have lead poisoning that 5th ape is probably a raktorak, however as the only specialist and the weakest link in the fireteam anybody worth their salt know that he's the number 1 target to picking your link apart. This is generally why mine packs a vulkan to win f2f rolls and is usually keeping his head down behind the nearest available total cover in the middle of the power armoured death ball. MB have a hacker and while that can be a weak link he's a weak link with 2 wounds and the ability to buff the unit.
    Hacking: It's better to not have to roll BTS in the first place than have to rely on it (just like why mimetic mods are generally superior to armour) suryats can bring a deflector L1 for hacking "mimetism" where as the Brigada can bring a defelctor L2 for "hacking ODD" and bring a hacker to fight back
    Threat bands: an ML goes out to a better range than a HRL and is hands down a better reactive weapon
    All your eggs in one basket: more an issue with CA themselves but when you pay into a Brigada link you've still got some options due to your cheaper line troops and other options like bandits, hellcats, intruders or even a gecko letting you keep a trick up your sleeve. As a CA player you're already squeezed for points and as MAF you're alternate routes of attack are incredibly limited while also being strapped for points

    [​IMG] This is in no way intended to be a good list
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 40)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 43)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] TOMCAT Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower + 1 Zondcat / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] ZONDCAT Electric Pulse. (4)
    5 SWC | 295 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    we've got our 5 man core team, a bit of AD a smoke caddy with a frenzy discount and the near obligatory infiltrating camo specialist with KHD and 5 points to spare. While mucking about I also put in an intruder sniper, a gecko or a decent attempt at second group, the point is they aren't so obvious

    I mean I'm not expecting Wu-ming levels of optimisation and cost effectiveness (let alone Riot girrls) but something a bit less generic and maybe with a little less of what I perceive as bloat.
    Or PHY 14+ and some grenades! more HI should have grenades, criminally underused weapons. Or number 2 wouldn't go far a miss it's a very "morat" skill IMO.
    Also I know I said I don't expect riot girls but if they want to give Suryats a big angry space monkey in power armour death machine frenzy discount I will not complain...

    And in general while I advocate it's use and how cool it is I'd rather have the IS Crane and Celestial guard special core

    TLDR: PHY 14 NOW! and I think they're bloated for something quite so generic that locks your force into a single dimensional attack pattern but I still use them anyway.
     
  8. Styx

    Styx Cat.IE~~

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    Just playing Suryats core on active turn and finish to hiding that core, that's a better choice if you don't need to expose all team for figth for nothing, out from the objectives.

    Protect all time your Raktorak, so... hide and don't expose the team, Kornak too. That core team give you 6 orders, for that they are better in active turn than rest of IP cores to engage in an optimal ranges, yes.. go inside to the middle. On a hacker specialist IP in a link are a waste points and giving free hack victim from KHD if that IP hacker dosen't have Stealth in your active turn, only protects him the sixt sense bonus.

    Again, if that brigadas team have a better deflector only for that -6WIP, just attack them with KHD, ignoring all barrier bonus form repeaters, fairy dust and deflectors. So, Suryats don't have this problem, only from AHD for.... ¿INM-1? with deflector lvl1 bonus on -3WIP and natural 6BTS, i think that are strong point for them. Finally, you only need EVO kalidoscope order, then, Bit&Kiss to nullifing that brigada hacker with maestro... ¿2 wounds? np, i have Maestro, you go to unconsious state in fact.


    But i agree to give Suryats that +1PHY or a hand grenades sounds great too, thats a worst actualized Suryat for a close firefights.
     
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  9. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    KHD ignore repeater firewalls, deflectors work. I'd quite happily sucker punch back at a red rum on -9.

    EFFECTS
    • Allows the use of SWORD L2 Programs.
    • Allows the use of the UPGRADE Program Toolbox: Cybermask.
    • Always ignores Firewall MODs, even the ones from the Defensive and White Hacking Devices.
    • This piece of Equipment allows players to enlist REMs in their Army List.
    This also seems to be a meta thing. KHD are fantastic but I've never found them to be the game breaking, hacking ending horror show others do and my main opposition are Nomad interventors and ninjas, in general I find A:HD far more vexing.

    If anything a 6th sense L2 multi wound hacker with a -6 to the hack attempt and a decent repeater network should be feared, loved and respected.
     
    #9 Aspect Graviton, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  10. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Mobile Brigadas are higher PH than Suryats because Mobile Brigadas are from Corregidor and are raised on Glorious Space Communism, which makes them strong like the People's Indomitable Will.

    There are some cool Suryat profiles I am quite jealous of as an occasional MB player, like the Vulkan Shotgun, the HMG and Tinbot LT (which is worth taking just on his own) and the HRL + LSG, because HRLs tend to be underpointed but expensive in SWC, and the Suryat is only paying what you'd expect from a BS 13 HI with a heavy weapon for his. So that's quite cool. A duo of the HRL and Vulkan Shotgun has long range firepower and is excellent in CQB. It's just that in Onyx, there's so many other options that are expensive. In Morats it's probably quite good? But then MAF seems kind of... hard to justify let's say.
     
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  11. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    The Suryat PH is only really frustrating because Morat non-HI troops have such high PH to begin with. It's not that 13 PH is low for HI, it's that +1 PH over base infantry stats seems low.
     
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  12. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    I don't think Suryats are bad at all. They're my favorite HI link in all of CA. ;)

    I love Suryats.
     
  13. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    This upsets me. I think they should sit around 15 - so they can dodge about as effectively as a normal Morat bro.
     
  14. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    There's no penalty for HI to dodge, so they already dodge better than basic Morat troopers.

    The Sogarat has PH 15; I think 14 would have been fine for Suryats.
     
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  15. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    @Aspect Graviton, allow me to offer a counterpoint to some of your Cons of Suryats.

    I don't believe the Missile launcher has a better range band than the Rocket Launcher. It's a lot easier for an enemy to come whitin 24 of you and negate your range bonus altogether. Additionally, while forcing the enemy to roll 3 saves is good, you don't get to strip off ODD, TO camo and Symbiont Armor with it, so in my opinion it evens out between the two.

    Higher BTS is good, because it helps against other stuff than E/M. If you get shot with Viral or Nanotech stuff it will help, and not all hacking attempts are at half BTS either. The way I see it, an E/M shot will brick any HI, so it doesn't matter which defenses you have.

    Here's a list using a Suryat link with no raktorak that I would run:

    [​IMG] Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] SURYAT HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 45)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 39)
    [​IMG] SURYAT MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] SURYAT Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 37)
    [​IMG] KORNAK Lieutenant Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 41)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] MORAT Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 22)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)

    5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    kinda hard not to have Kornak in there, but I really think this list leverages out well against other LI lists, and probably makes a lot of use of the suryat link too.

    I do agree that PH13 is frustrating (I'd like them to get bumped to 15 and Sogs to 16, but that's pure wishlist), but I still think they are better than MB.
     
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  16. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    True - my brain no work today. I'm still in Xeodron-mode... They are also only Ph13 :(
     
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  17. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    Going to reply in line to these, I don't think any of it is wrong I just want to explore them a little more
    Also I like that list buuut you're cutting a specialist from the fireteam you're wanting to spend orders on, great for direct action but for a mixed ops or Ur help you specialist operations you're going to feel it a Vulcan Suryat is pretty much the only sane replacement for that raktorak however.

    On the subject of the special link: does anybody use the Red fury or the combi flamer?
     
  18. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    [​IMG] A Suryat with less bloat?
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 31)
    0 SWC | 31 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
    upload_2018-3-27_10-29-26.png

    [​IMG] Morat Aggression Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] SURYAT Vulkan Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 37)
    0 SWC | 37 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    upload_2018-3-27_10-30-21.png

    Is a suryat's vulcan really worth 6 points more than this magnificent auto include?

    It's ok at least they don't have better defenses against hacking...

    [​IMG] Seriously, a tin bot 2 for penal troops?
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG Boarding Shotgun + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 33)
    0.5 SWC | 33 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Oh actually they do.

    I mean I play this faction but even now I'm becoming annoyed by it:
    upload_2018-3-27_10-35-53.png
    All killer: No Filler

    It's ok however as we can add in Kornak and a Raktorak to cover some weaknesses, Wu-ming can't do that...

    [​IMG] What about that special link?
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades, MadTraps / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING HMG / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1 | 30)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Fireteam: Haris, Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING Missile Launcher, Nanopulser, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING Hacker (Hacking Device) Breaker Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Forward Observer) Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING Lieutenant HMG / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1 | 30)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING Lieutenant (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] ZHÀNYING (Sensor) Boarding Shotgun, Nimbus Grenades / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 23)
    4.5 SWC | 275 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #18 Aspect Graviton, Mar 27, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  19. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    You're forgetting that they ignore Loss of LT and Isolation. EDIT: And 3 more BTS.

    Let's take the mission Rescue for example. Suryats don't lose an order moving in to the zone. If for some reason you're getting hammered and end up in Retreat, Suryats can still snag a Civilian on your last turn without burning Command Tokens to ignore Lol.

    I don't know this for sure, but I FEEL like most "complaints" come from folks comparing them to other units on paper, not from actually playing Suryats.
     
    #19 Reece, Mar 27, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
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  20. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Suryats have BTS 6 as standard, and doesn't have to include another trooper for 33/0.5 to get a better hacking protection. Morat skill is also worth it on HI, arguably more so than on Vanguard or other light unit.

    And Vulcan Shotguns are brutal.
     
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