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Can Equipment be Affected by States?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by fkaos, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. fkaos

    fkaos Active Member

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    All the states I’ve looked at (including disconnected) call out troopers in the effects, and as equipment are not troopers can they be effected by these states?

    RAW Disconnected doesn’t work, but the intent is clear. Does the intent to effect equipment transfer over to other states as well?

    Some examples: isolated vs Netrods or repeaters, imm vs crazy koalas
     
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    There is another discussion going on with something similar – imm on Crazy Koalas. As of right now, no. states do not affect equipment. TBH in most cases it usually wouldn't come up or matter
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The particularities of Disconnected is because the State itself only handles Troopers, but other States such as Destroyed specifically only deals with equipment and scenery and can't affect Troopers.
     
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Oh it definitely matters.
     
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  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Normally, the rules of the equipment make it clear when and how they enter the Disconnected state.

    So generally equipment aren't affected by states other than Damaged/Destroyed. Some Equipment is affected by specific states because their rules make it clear they are.

    For instance, Perimeter Items:
    "A Perimeter Item which is not in Stand By Mode will enter the Disconnected state at the end of the Order in which it breaks Coherency with its bearer or if its bearer enters the Isolated, or any Null state."


    It is normally held that such specific states actually affect the Equipment.

    It's a kludge, but it works. Yes, Trooper/non-Trooper interactions need to be cleared up.
     
  6. fkaos

    fkaos Active Member

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    Funnily enough damaged state specifically calls out equipment, but per the faq you never actually use it for Netrods at least. So disconnected works even though it says troopers, but damaged doesn’t, even though the rules clearly say it does, because faq.

    And it definitely matters. Played top table at a local tournament over the weekend and I E/M grenaded an Imetron (and Bit, but she passed her save -_-), but nothing happens per RAW. I very much would have liked my opponent to have not had that last order to spotlight my Lt. and guided missile him into oblivion.
     
  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yup. It's entirely arbitrary. To make things even more confusing, some people claim that you can put equipment into certain states (like Targeted) but that it has no effect once it's on them.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I mean, nothing in that particular FAQ entry has any real basis in the rules as written, it basically removes a whole big chunk of rules text and puts it into doubt whether Damaged State should even be in the game...
     
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  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    That's mainly because you can put Objectives into the Targetted state and it doesn't have any effect (outside of scoring).
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I'd argue that. Guided ammo can be fired at a "target" who is Targeted without regard for it being a trooper or not.
     
  11. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I think the argument is that scenery cannot enter the "targeted" state in the first place.
    Screen Shot 2018-10-09 at 4.30.01 PM.jpg
    activation for "Targeted" specifically calls out troopers
     
  12. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Because Guided says "Target in the Targetted state". And being able to fire Guided is a property of Guided Weapons not of Targeted.

    Yeah, logic is sound.
     
  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    And the wording for Disconnected only mentions Trooper as well, but somehow that works.
     
  14. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Disconnected on scenery items? Can you cite an instance when this happens?
     
  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That's fine, but the argument I see is that you can't fire Guided ammo at Targeted scenery equipment etc. @HellLois made that ruling about The Grid iirc.
     
  16. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Disconnected on equipment i.e. perimeter weapons.
     
  17. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I think that would be an exception to the rule, since it specifically calls out the disconnected state in the perimeter weapon entry
     
  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yeah, well, the things that put other things in Targeted state (like Sat-Lock, Forward Observer etc) don't say they need to hit a Trooper, only a target.
     
  19. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    yes but it circles back down to the targeted state and the activation clauses for it
     
  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. The Trooper / non-Trooper interactions only really work through generous interpretation (see Disconnected Perimeter Items) and CB fiat (see MAing terrain, terrain not being eligible for a Guided target). You can't make it function RAW.

    It really needs a root and branch review to make it clear what interactions are intended and what are not. It's probably the number one issue in terms of most confusing interactions, because it's not at all edge case.