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Camo'd hacker vs "achilles" (really patroc)

Discussion in 'Rules' started by kinginyellow, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    So what happens if a camo token activates within obvious ZOC of imp-1 patroc hiding as achilles. He does a surprise hack oblivion. What happens next?

    Do you tell your opponent that you aren't hackable as soon as the camo marker is near? (I feel no)

    Do you tell your opponent that it's not illegal and that they stay in camo (both players a little more aware of whats under each model).

    Or do you tell your opponent thats illegal, to bad you got tricked, and is now out of camo and potentially getting shot? (I am not fond of gotchas so personally not a fan of this one but can understand).
     
  2. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    It's not really a gotcha, that's the whole point of pretending to be something you're not, but it's also not the answer to the situation so I guess it doesn't matter.

    The answer is, hacker's reveal the hackable trait of holoprojector users when inside ZOC, so the camo player has to declare he has a hacker in range (giving away his marker identity somewhat but not losing marker state) to be entitled to the information, but once he does so he gets to know whether his hack will succeed or not.

    See the following.

    Holoprojector L2 and Hacking. Hackable Characteristic Example:
    The perfidious Interventor Morgana gets an ARO when an Order Sergeant model enters her Zone of Control. Morgana asks if that trooper has the Hackable Characteristic, and surprisingly she gets a "yes" as reply. With evil satisfaction, the Interventor declares a Hacking ARO against that model. Morgana succeeds at the roll only to realize much to her chagrin that it was just a Holoecho and not a real trooper. However, now she knows some of the other Order Sergeants are a Holy Sepulchre Knight bearing a Holoprojector L2. The game has just started.
     
  3. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Yeah, you just need to ask if the Achilles is hackable.
     
  4. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Fair way to handle it. Didnt think it through. You will find out later that the camo is in fact a hacker, and if they are not, it is a cheating moment anyways.

    Cheers guys! Thanks.
     
  5. Musterkrux

    Musterkrux Well-Known Member

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    So, one property of a Hacking device is as follows:
    The rules for Holoprojector 1 note that the Hackable characteristic is considered Open Information for your opponent.

    Because you cannot know that the Camo Marker is a hacker, you cannot confirm that Achilles/Patroclus is in a Hacking Area and, as such, are not obliged to say: "Hey, FYI, I'm not hackable."

    However, if your opponent asks: "Is Achilles hackable?" You might turn around and say: "I'd love to answer but is he in a Hacking Area, right now?" Your opponent could say: "Trust me, yes he is." At which point, you'd know that the Camo marker is a hacker/repeater and your opponent would know that Achilles is not Hackable (as you'd have to answer truthfully here).

    I'd say the Gotcha is a perfectly legal outcome of the interaction, if your opponent failed to ask if you were Hackable before moving in for the kill.

    That said, you'd be a good sport to recognise the complexity of the matter and give them a small take back: "OK, your hacker is still in Camo but I suppose now we both know that you have a Hacker and I have a non-Hackable Achilles. Let's move on."
     
  6. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    Best way for that to end. Thanks!
     
  7. M0Dark

    M0Dark Member

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    So can you ask if the Holoprojector bearer is susceptible to certain programs? Or as a Marker is it just that the bearer is Hackable?
     
  8. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

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    I think we get a yes/no if hackable or not. Not by what.

    It is up in contention (i believe) if having a hacking device makes you hackable as far as telling your opponent is concerned. (Again, not telling them by which programs, just that they are In general)
     
  9. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    It's unfortunately a poorly spelled out interaction, especially when there can be hidden information in play on both sides, as in this example.
     
    inane.imp likes this.