1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

C/A for Onyx list

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Car0nt3, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    26
    Hi guys,
    first time I'm posting my list here in order to look for critics and advice since on Wednesday I'd like to play it during a league match.

    I'm so noob that a real noob could claim him/her self The master of infinity compares to myself.
    So please, be kind...I'll tried my best to come up with something can stand a chance against a nomad's list.

    Here you are:


    Proviamoci 2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    UMBRA LEGATE Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 43)
    NEXUS Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) HMG + TinBot A (Deflector L1) / Pistol, CCW. (2 | 48)
    E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    NEXUS (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3
    NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  2. Fathoym

    Fathoym Well-Known Member
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    329
    What's the purpose of the link in this list? Usually, I'd expect to see a few heavy weapons to make use of the fire team bonuses. 5 Specialists in a fire team seems a little excessive.

    Otherwise, you've got the core pieces there to make a solid list. You will likely struggle against decent ARO pieces locking down large areas of the table though.
     
  3. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    983
    Likes Received:
    2,065
    Important question: What is the mission/missions you're playing? That, more than your opponents, should dictate how you build a list.
     
    Stiopa likes this.
  4. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    6,660
    This. Lists in the game are purpose-built against the mission, and against opponent if possible.

    1) As @Fathoym mentioned, no heavy weapons in the link team. I'd start by deciding if you want it to be a defensive or assault fireteam. From the setup I assume it'd be a defensive one with FOs deployed to stun enemy units. If I were to run this setup I'd like to include either a Plasma SR or Missile Launcher, but SWC is tight there.

    2) Easy to find Lieutenant. There are only two troopers that could be it, and if opponent will make a right guess he can cripple your first or second turn. This is generally Onyx's weakness, I actually exploited it in a friendly game last week. You could try to encourage a wrong guess here and bait the other player to hunt the faux Lt.

    3) No flankers. All your troopers start the game in your DZ (save for the Legate, but 4" isn't much); you'll need a lot of orders to reach opposing troops if they'll take cover.

    4) If your Q-Drone will serve primarily as an ARO piece I'd consider moving it to the second group, so that when it goes down it won't reduce the main group's order pool (if you plan to advance with it then group 1 is just fine). Also, placing a Noctifier near the Q-Drone is a nasty little trick that allows for double ARO that people rarely expect.
     
    DaRedOne likes this.
  5. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    26
    Hi guys, thanks for all your useful advice. Appreciated a lot all of them.
    We'll play secure and control if I remember correctly the name (go and steal the beacon to the enemy and protect mine, possibly).

    For first, I noticed just now that you have highlighted that I forgot the heavy weapon in the fireteam -___- ... I'm a retard. XD thanks to pointed out <3
    I know that there are no flankers, but I kinda don't know how to use them since they're usually the first are gonna die.
    (my opponent will have an annoying big CC Big and Ugly Dog, seems he called Mc. Murrog or something like that, that I hate too much in his list.)
    The suggestion to put the q-drone and the Noctifer in the second group is interesting I will surely consider it.

    I'm mainly struggling to do a list that contains all the models I would like to have because they're quite expensive in points.
    My adversary will have a couple of HMG I already know because I know how he'll play the list that one HMG is on a model with visor L2 and camouflage (and that piece is there just for my Q-drone. then he has loads of cheerleaders. The Nasty Dog ... a hacker and a couple of crazy koalas ...probably a couple a doctor that will enter from some side and a couple of annoying models with mines and camouflaged.

    I'm not the type of player who advances recklessly ...I usually try to take down much of the annoying models I can shoot them and then advance to secure the objective. So I'll try my best to drive out all the dangerous pieces take them down and then go for the objectives. (the main reason about all the forward observer..so if some go down I'll have the reserve.)
    Anyway, as I said I'm not an expert so some times I struggled with tactics.
     
  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    6,660
    Ah yes, Capture&Protect. This means that you need a good objective runner; preferably something that's fast and durable. If I recall correctly you don't need a specialist to pick up the beacon, you can do it with any trooper.

    Hey, we all have our brainfart moments, no worries :P

    Regarding flankers: there are few basic ways they can be used:
    • You can advance with them early, making them an immediate danger to bait opponent into losing part of his turn to go after such a distraction. This requires putting them in a way that simultaneously allows you to advance easily next turn, making them a danger to enemy backline, and makes it hard but not too hard for your opponent to reach your trooper. You want him to decide that it's worth to try, instead of just ignoring the trooper in question.
    • You can use your unit as an assassin, going after a specific enemy unit and eliminating it.
    • You can wait until 2nd-3rd turn, to exploit any gaps in enemy line that might appear by then, take advantage of any mistakes on his part - like overextending, positioning units in a way that there's a blind spot to go through, etc.
    In the end it depends on how comfortable you feel with these units, and what game your opponent plays.

    Heh, having expensive models and always too few points to spare is the CA's constant. I also play SEF. It's annoying how quickly costs add up :P

    Ok. This means you're playing against Corregidor, the anarcho-syndicalist part of the Nomad force. They're a good army, but perfectly counterable. The MSV2/Camo/HMG unit is called an Intruder; it's a very good unit and you want to deny your opponent the chance to use it effectively. One of the ways to do it is to deploy your Q-Drone - or other ARO troops - in a way that denies the Intruder a clear line of fire, forcing him to advance before he can bring his guns to bear. This means staying off the rooftops with your ARO troops. This is a good general rule, actually; deploying ARO trooper so it can see most of the table means that most of the table sees your trooper, which gives your opponent more options how to deal with it. Better to deploy them low, guarding a particular advance route, preferably agaisnt units that won't have an easy time countering your AROs (for example Makreep sniper against McMurrough; Smoke is useless agaisnt MSV2 trooper). Force Intruder to come to you, it's slow at 4-2 MOV and won't get anywhere fast.

    Honestly, I would go with a simple, brutal approach. Corregidor has multiple ways to deal with soft troops, but can struggle against forceful tactics:

    Proviamoci 2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    XEODRON Red Fury, Blitzen / Heavy Pistol. (1 | 63)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    NEXUS Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    UNIDRON Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    GREIF-OP (Inferior Impersonation) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    KO DALI (AD: Combat Jump) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. (0 | 39)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3
    NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    Xeodron is the Datatracker. If you go through the center you should have most targets in range of your Red Fury. Greif Impersonator should be able to get through CrazyKoala net - they treat model in Imperonation state as friendly - and kill their controller (most likely Moran in the midfield). Greif will likely die to Koala counterattack, but should be able to kill Moran (if he won't put his Koalas on Standby they get Disabled upon his demise). This also eliminates a Repeater that could screw with your Xeodron's approach. Ko Dali could try to go after McMurrough; if you'll stay beyond Chain Rifle range there won't be much he can do about it. And your Xeodron can make a run for the beacon, Forcing his way through any AROs and using cover and high ARM to deflect any shots that get through. With ARM 5 it even has 50/50 chance of not getting damaged by a Koala, and STR3 means it can survive a fluke. After that get back to your DZ, use Unidrons and Greif/Ko Dali (if they're still alive) to slow any counterattacks.

    Another thing to consider would be to leave enemy big units be, and go after the order pool. McMurrough or Intruder are much less dangerous when down to 4-5 orders (McMurrough is fast, though, so this isn't as sure a tactic).

    Also, keep an eye on table borders. Corregidor can field some nasty flankers of his own in form of Tomcats and Hellcats. Look them up. In general, go through opponnen's army in Army builder. Sun Tzu's "know your enemy and know yourself" never lost its value ;)

    This is a fully working strategy. My PanO works like this most of the time; shoot enemy through both kneecaps first, then go for objectives while he's down. With Overdron, Xeodron, Suryats, Sphinx - oh man, Sphinx - Onyx can play the same game. Identify the biggest threat, make it go away, exploit the opening.
     
    #6 Stiopa, Feb 18, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
    Car0nt3 and DaRedOne like this.
  7. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2018
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    242
    you have a different loadout of Greif operator in your roster, not the one with impersonation
     
  8. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    6,660
    Heh. that's what you get when you attempt to put together a list in the middle of the night :P Fixed.
     
  9. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    26
    Thanks so much, they're all splendid advice I'll sure use. Actually you taught me a lot. :heart: Thanks
    Just few questions:

    This was the main reason why I had opted for the umbra legates as a hacker, to the possibility of using Cyber mask. (and to boost with assisted fire the drones). (Obviously I don't know if have any means tho XD).
    Unfortunately, I still don't own a TAG model and I don't have the chance to proxies it.
    The list you've suggested is really close to what I wanted the list could do.
    I'm craving your knowledge in this game, believe me.

    I would have the needs to change the Xeodron with something else, so just without any count I was thinking roughly at the umbra legates but I guess there wouldn't be the support point. What can you suggest instead of the Xeodron? Could be some HI?


    Man, you're good, you had hit plenty my adversary list. And probably he will have loads of smokescreen.
    I knew it that I shouldn't use the roof, I was wondering if it was a good move, but obviously don't XD :disappointed_relieved:

    Thanks again, this so useful I think I'm gonna printing it :heart:
     
    Stiopa likes this.
  10. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    6,660
    Always happy to help ;)

    This is actually a good idea. Main problem is that Umbra are very fragile, especially given their cost; one failed ARM roll against anything with Shock ammo and he's gone. Samaritans can fare a bit better thanks to Protheion, but you need the opportunity to feed first. Consider running Kerr-Nau; he brings a very nasty combination of weapons and equipment.

    Yeah, I'd actually go back to your own idea and bring back the Suryat ;) I'd just get the MRifle one to save SWC for other heavy weapons. In this version you can use your link team to clear the way; Plasma Sniper for long range, Spitfires if you advance a bit into effective range. For example something like this:

    Proviamoci 2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    SURYAT MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 41)
    NEXUS Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)
    UNIDRON Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1 | 18)
    UNIDRON Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20)
    UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)
    UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14)
    KO DALI (AD: Combat Jump) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. (0 | 39)
    KERR-NAU (UPGRADE: White Noise) Plasma Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Don't get attached to your lists too much :P Between building lists to fit the mission, possible opponents, and experimenting, I don't think I used the same list more than two, maybe three times. Experiment, try new combinations, switch things around a lot. This will give your playstyle a lot of flexibility, while making it very hard for your opponents to guess what you'll bring next time. Rodok Core (awesome unit, by the way)? Xeodron/Samaritan Haris? Sphinx? Lots of AD plus Infiltrators? 18-order Horde list? Make them guess.

    As an anecdote - a few years back one of our players came up with a nasty, 19-20 order JSA list. For a few games we struggled with countering so many orders, but when we learned how to deal with it - going for the list's teeth and kicking them out - it turned out that after losing 3-4 important units the rest of the list is just guys with low BS and Combi Rifles. But that was possible only because that player was very attached to a single list type and didn't change it much if at all, even after we figured out the counters. Another lesson from the eastern masters - be like water, adapt and flow. There's a reason why Laozi, Sun Tzu, or Miyamoto Musashi talked about it :)
     
    Car0nt3 likes this.
  11. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    26
    Luckily I'm not that attached to the list, I'm rather the type who don't like losing a piece of the army. (even if I know I have to get on with it) :sweat_smile:.
    I was mention to print your advice, anyway, rather than the list. Because they're really such a good slice of wisdom.

    Thanks again, I guess that I'll be back with the result of the play to discuss with you and the others forum member the match, since I've found this conversation such useful and pleasant. :blush:
     
    Stiopa likes this.
  12. Car0nt3

    Car0nt3 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    26
    So.. at the end I won a major win. And left my adversary with 25pts left (one model only)
    I've brought this list.
    Proviamoci 5──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 NEXUS Lieutenant Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24) UNIDRON Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 20) UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) UNIDRON (Forward Observer) Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) UNIDRON Plasma Carbine / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 14) UNIDRON Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1 | 18) MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) GREIF-OP (CH: Mimetism, Forward Deployment L2) Shock Marksman Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 25) KO DALI (CH: Mimetism, Forward Deployment L2) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. (0 | 36) UMBRA LEGATE Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 43)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26) ÍMETRON . (0 | 4) ÍMETRON . (0 | 4) 6 SWC | 298 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    That is the list @Stiopa a suggested first, but as I couldn't be able to proxy the Tag, I had adjusted a bit.
    Had worked pretty fine. With all the suggestions you guys gave me.
    So thanks a lot.
    I had just lured out the big dog and shot him down with the Q-drone. Let the unidrons fireteam move forward and confront the adversary aros. (Surprisingly for me they're good at it) put the hacker in a safe place to cast goodies on my piece. And ending with the two objectives and a real destruction. Since noctifer with a surprise shot had wiped out an entire fireteam composed by Lupe, 3 wildcats with a heavy rocket launcher, and a doctor.
    So, guess it went really well. Thanks, @Stiopa . And everyone for the suggestion <3

    P.s: oh yes, I've lost an imetron out of bad luck at the beginning during the deployment and two unidron batroids, one for doctor's failure, and one for enemy fire. ^^ so actually nothing.
     
    #12 Car0nt3, Feb 21, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
    DaRedOne and Stiopa like this.
  13. Edmund Dantes

    Edmund Dantes New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    [QUOTE="Stiopa, post: 3234) If your Q-Drone will serve primarily as an ARO piece I'd consider moving it to the second group, so that when it goes down it won't reduce the main group's order pool (if you plan to advance with it then group 1 is just fine). Also, placing a Noctifier near the Q-Drone is a nasty little trick that allows for double ARO that people rarely expect.[/QUOTE]


    What does the Noctifer do that gives the Q Drone double ARO?

    Thanks
     
  14. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    3,164
    Likes Received:
    6,660
    Q-Drone still gets one ARO, double ARO means that Q and Noctifier both react to the same trooper's actions.

    Let's say your Q-Drone is on the roof, and Noctifier hides in a window one floor below. Or that you're covering a particular long fire lane with a Q-Drone, but can anticipate from where your opponent will likely try to attack it, and deploy Noctifier in a place that allows for LoF to the same exact spot, for example the same building corner. Then, when opportunity arises, you react with both. These AROs can be very punishing because they force you to split fire, or allow for a very high risk of losing active trooper. What's more, they force you to make this decision quickly, mid-activation, which means you're less likely to recalculate what's your best shot is. Shasvastii are particularly good at forcing opponent into situations where they have to choose between bad and worse outcomes.
     
    Car0nt3 and DaRedOne like this.