I'm gonna give him a run out tonight against a good local player who runs Avatar/Nourkias, and see how I fare. I want to be wrong about the chap :)
We played Rescue, my opponent brought his Avatar/Nourkias list, a horrible list that he pilots very well. I nearly managed to tied it at the end; but I immediately realised I'd made a mistake when I threw smoke, instead of kamikazing with the Bronze and Varangian past the Avatar at the end of the game. That would have ended 5-0 to CA. We decided to rewind the order where I threw smoke to see what would happen, and instead the bronze managed to get past the Avatar and to the backfield, where he managed to glue Dr Worm, desyncing his two civilians, leaving it on a 0-0. Useful learning game in lots of ways. He does bring some unique defence to bear but he's pillowfisted and slow. He needs something, like MA2, or ARM5, or +1D BS, or 6-2, or a points drop. I feel that you can just about manage to bring him and still run a viable list, due to some very efficient units in O12 taking up the slack. At 11 points cheaper I'll stick with my KHD Raptor all day everyday, thanks! :D
How would you un-pillowfist him? Seeing numerous MOV 4-4 Heavy Infantry in my armies (and some 6-2 ones as well) I just don't see it as a disadvantage. I see 4-4 as "normal" HI, and 6-2 ones as "fast HI". Though it might be a part of the old 4-2 HI of previous editions still being live in my memory. So, I accept it is based on my perception, primarily. I see there is a good break between "fast" and "normal" HI in O-12 writeup: Omegas & Bronzes (plus Hector and Diggers) being 4-4 Betatroopers, Gammas & Raptors being 6-2. They seem to be having their distinct features each: the fast ones are either hulking (S5 Gamma) or relatively lightly armored (Raptors and Betatroopers at ARM 3). The "normal" ones are either hard to hit (Omegas with Mimetism -6) or hard to destroy (Bronzes with Total Immunity) - or dirt cheap budget option (Digger). Just a thought, however :)
Fair points, Errhile. If I had my way with the Bronze, I'd take it in one of a few directions. 1) I think it could make a great nco/coc/lt unit. Keep the same price so it's exhorbitant, but now it brings some real strategic benefits to your list. 2) The bronze is carrying a lot of expensive CC powers, without access to actual offensive CC. He could go up to MA2 and CC22, or NBW, at which point he could tussle with big name martial artists. Again, keep the same price, but now we have a unit that actually has a decent threat. 3) Strip his 360 visor, keep him the same, shave about 10-12 points off the profile. He no longer breaks your lists. 4) Least imaginative, but you could add a simple +1d to BS attacks, or give him a new loadout. Currently he has two 'dead' profiles that are just spec-op/paramedics at -1pt, who lose their specialist abilities. Completely irrelevant, never taken.
Well, from my point of view: That's a very good idea. Apart form MA1 I don't see much "expensive CC powers" (or, in fact, any CC powers) on him. With this setup (Total Immunity, Para CCW, CC 19 and MA1) he seems to me more like a model yuo don't want to attack in close combat. Which is a different thing than being actually good in close combat (another example of such a writeup are the Haqq Odalisques: CC18 themselves, but brandishing a rather disheartening CC -9 skill and a Para CCW on top of it. Not particularly likely to win a CC themselves, but you really don't want to brawl with them. Even if you are a CC monster yourself). I see the 360-visor as an useful defensive tool. I really don't see a problem there. Sometimes it is the 1-2 points you lack to fill the list, sometimes it is the scenario in which you don't need specialists. Since these profiles don't require additional models - which would put a strain on CBs release schedule - I'd say they should stay. As we say here (roughly), "it ain't crying to be fed": keeping them means no extra maintenance cost.
2) I'd be interested to see the metrics for MA1 in pts vs MA2, but I bet it doesn't accurately represent the huge shift up it represents. MA, E/M and Para -6 are 3 things the Bronze pays for; he's one of those smorgasboard units I guess. In any case, he really suffers from comparison to the 23pt Odalisque. 3) Yeah it's handy. 4) It's boring. Exactly the same loadouts just with the speciliasm stripped for 1pt. Unless you desperately want a Bronze in your firefight list, they're null loadouts. If you can find 52pts to run a Bronze you're going in on him hard (and chances are you want him to boop buttons with his varangian sidekick, as him and Miranda are the only specialists who can duo in O12) and so you'll probably be cutting a single point elsewhere - or, of crouse, cutting the Bronze for something better...
i played the bronze next day. So he is like he is. He is too expensive. I used him for road block in suppresiv fire he block well one camo marker and he finaly dead because a shrouded hacker kill him with a combi rifle. He took the place of an HI with HMG or long range weapons and i regret to don't have this HMG. Because in fact he block well i agree but he kill nothing like an hmg did. Next time i use another HI with HMG like omega or other.
Except it is not meant to be a comparison - merely an example of a similar anti-CC setup. Odalisques are by far too different of an unit to be compared to Bronzes. Now, I get it - not every unit befits every player & their playstyle. Myself, I had a problem with Druze in QK since N2 - I've eventually learned to make them work, but I'm still not a fan of them (not even in their own sectorial...).
Druze get that outrageous D14 E/M grenade launcher profile that can spec-fire on 9s out to 32", I think that's a really strong pick; and their very permissive fireteam compositions means they have some interesting options now. But yeah, IMO they are fellow travellers of the Bronze: lots of skills and equipment piled on until the unit loses it's focus and becomes very expensive, and thus harder to justify taking. That's not to say either are automatic write-offs of course. The Bronze can do a very interesting job and in some matchups could be your mvp. And those matchups are becoming more commonplace with the rise of the bears! But it's a hard sell when O12 has so many other superb options for defence.
