Be a dick if you want, but it's hard to find when the people telling me where it is... don't actually tell me where it is. Telling me the grail is on earth may be correct, but isn't all that helpful now is it? Take @toadchild 's explanation above, he tells me it's a normal roll because it's core game terminology. But all his examples are not situations where I'm using a skill to make a yet unidentified roll and then determining what type of roll to make. That's how others are explaining this to me. But that isn't the situation we're in. I'm using a skill that is a FTF roll and trying to figure out what happens when i'm unable to make that FTF roll. Is the skill void, does it become a normal roll, do all effects become normal rolls? I want to see where the rules tell me how to handle that situation. It should be easy if it's basic game play. But vague statements like it's 'core terminology' don't do this. I listed how each conclusion of his three examples was reached and took a guess what led to the third. It's clear you don't care about the discussion, so feel free to move on. I think understanding why the rules work the way they do is important. And if anyone thinks this rules interaction is clear and obvious, it should be just as easy to explain. If I'm a student in a classroom, and I'm not understanding it the way you're teaching it, who's at fault? Does it matter?