Interesting. Cenobites = Teutons, but trading better BS, PH, and the Dodge bonuses for Mim (-6) and MA3 instead of MA2.
I don't think Cenobites compare with teutons. Teutons aren't slinging B2 chainrifles. Cenobites are basically the better version of Diggers and Diablos, and comparable to the MAF kaitok in terms of sheer balls to the walls aggression.
As people have already pointed out I just point out again that Moderators are indeed 1-5 and this means they can indeed form a core.
I will point out the obvious and say again, it ends here, take the discussion and jabs to other places of the internet were they cater to such discussion, current political discussion is not allowed in the forum.
No, please, no. I was glad we rid off the 4 mods+1ML Riot girl core... Any nun fireteam will be still suboptimal. Why riot girls deserve so much love
Being a PanO player, looking at all this kinda hurts. Wow, Nomads get a TAG that can handle its own Hacking/CC fights and has a tagalong Engineer, great. As a Bakunin player, I guess it's alright if you're just here for power or appreciate mixed units to create a big anarchic mob-feeling, but it's going to be hard to avoid Cenobites, Initiates and Orphans thanks to their sheer cost efficiency and link variety. Since I'm not interested in the look, I'll be staying with my NCA for the forseeable future. As an opponent, I don't know what to think. This is now a Sectorial that can threaten Steel Phalanx level aggression backed by Nomad board control, Hacking and scoring capability, with Bran for easy assassinations of key defenders in an alpha strike. There are now no Sectorial-wide weaknesses, with all vision blockers and deployment types save Impersonation present and powerful visual modifiers in most or all links alongside good start-of-game Repeater coverage. The closest things I can find to exploitable gaps in list construction are a persistent paucity of HMGs, meaning a linked and capable Sniper like a Bolt could keep them at arm's length given favourable terrain, and that their massive presence of Hackers and Hackables mean they're vulnerable to armies which can actually get a leg up in the Hacking game.
The biggest weakness of this army is their lack of long range active shooting. They've got a few snipers and rocket launchers, but very little HMGs. Which forces them to come close. Thankfully, they do work very well up close and personal. Still, very little order shenanigans, so they need to go for bigger lists, and No Command and Control options means they get decaptiated fairly easily. Also, more than half the army's options are Mimetic 1 wound pieces, so an MSV piece in active turn will cut through them like a hot knife through butter. So yeah, they do have weaknesses, and some big ones too.
Erm, the Lizard brings a multi hmg and can duo with an engineer. But the weakness in lt options probably stays, so assassination counterplay is possible. I still consider the rework a bit too much, however, but we will see.
That's kinda universal for anything short of a TAG, to be fair. Riot Girls are one of the game's better options for dealing with MSV pieces though, having solid Dodge scores if they're in an unfavourable rangeband and enough durability to make it through at least one round of shooting most of the time. I predict mixed Riot/Moderator Cores backed up by one of the Observance/Reverend Haris options to be common, since that leaves enough points to max out on Orders and still have points for Zeroes and support. The Lizard's also pretty pricy if not reworked, and harder to fit into a list. It's not a bad option, but my late-N3 go to HMG was the Reaktion Zond simply because of the utility and synergy with Hacking alongside cheaper price. Post-rework I see the Cenobite HRL being the usual ranged shooter for the faction; Mim-6 and burst 3 in a link combined with HMG rangebands mean it can handle pretty much anything short of a Core MSV Sniper and those can be easily zoned out with a Custodier's White Noise.
I'm not so sure about the long-range weakness. Depends a lot on if/how they update the Moira. If they become more durable, you have some very capable Mim -6 MSRs and HMGs in pure links. Plus the Taskmaster HRL is still a thing. And Sineaters might get a glow-up too. I'd say the main weakness of Bakunin remains the same as any Nomad army: weak command structure. If you don't go first and can't put your Hacker Lt into Cybermask, you'll be in Lol quite quickly. That with a lack of CoC and Veteran, and there are still strong ways to keep them at bay. They are very similar to Teutons imo, who have B2/B3 Light Shotguns instead of B2/B3 Chain Rifles, which is pretty similar. And looking at the points, Teutons are either undercosted as well, or Cenobites are comparatively costed.
One of the other aspects of the Hacker TAG is it is now vulnerable to Killer Hackers. All the changes since N4 has made it clear that Hacking is a vital part of the game and ignoring it will get you in trouble (Ariadna excepted, of course). I am looking forward to seeing the AVA of units in Bakunin as it will dictate a lot.
I say don't be sad. They clearly only showed the new profiles, but I'm very certain they will update a lot of the old stuff as well. It would have just made the video double as long. The more I think about the redesign, the more I realize that they took the chance to expand on the Observance in every way. They added everything they needed to have the whole line-up: Their own line troops (Orphans), their own warband HI, their own S5 HI, their own Skirmishers, and their own TAG. Basically a mini sectorial inside the sectorial. Which is actually kinda cool if you think about it. If you want to, you can now play Bakunin as a fully Observance-themed army. Or you can still play it as a completely Observance-free army. Or you mix them up. You get the choice. Kudos to CB for making it like that.
Great point. I was a bit skeptic about the new observance/bakunin but your point of view of them being like a mini sectorial is spot on!
This is Tohaa erasure and I will not stand for it /s I for one am very curious to see what, if anything, has changed about the old Observance Profiles; these new toys seem like a lot of fun, but if they're shackled to the old, expensive profiles they may be a lot more difficult to use than they look at first glance. The new TAG's design also reminds me of my days playing Advent in Sins of a Solar Empire. Good times, good times.
Sure wish they could Eclipse Smoke ARO, but... oh... And as already said, linked ODD HRL with access to White Noise does quite well handling long range combat. Not like you need to when you have UFKs tho. I think Cenobites are too much (yet another example of CB keeping Imp/frenzy interaction with fireteams going just so they can cheat profiles) specially when Riots were already optimized, and things like the Moran+ AI, the 0 CAP MSV2 and the infiltrating camo minelayer repeater just make you think "was ALL of this needed?"
Exactly that, burlesford. Obviously, when we've revisited an old sectorial, we've added new profiles and modifed some old profiles. In this case, you can expect some changes in Moiras (yes, some point drop expected), Healers, Custodiers, Sin-Eaters...
