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Backdoor proof we should just join CA

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by inane.imp, Apr 3, 2018.

?

Do you think CB has no idea what the community thinks?

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    19.7%
  2. No

    49 vote(s)
    80.3%
  1. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    That's an absurd comparison, and I'm getting tired of your aggressive anti-player stance.

    Asking players to assemble (not even paint) minis is an expected part of the hobby, and is part of the draw.

    This is not the same as selling a player something that is advertised as completing their force, and then telling them, as soon as they show up for their first ITS event, 'sorry, your list is illegal because of some event that happened that you probably didn't hear about'.

    You seriously need to understand that there are a lot of players who can't afford to buy every mini, and a lot of players are going to do something like 'buy red veil and beyond red veil, then go to first ITS event'. That's what those products are for, and what they are MARKETED as.

    I'm seriously sick of your constant demand that everyone have as many miniatures and the same budget and playstyle as you - not everyone does, and this is a clear example of a slap to new players, even more than the JSA nonsense (they kept ninja in YJ for obvious reasons - red veil), that really doesn't need you jumping in and saying the new player or anyone confused by the move is a piece of shit just because they don't share your income/collection/desire to proxy.

    Yes, they can use him as a proxy... apart from him being the wrong silhouette, and, oh I don't know, most people don't like to proxy miniatures to entirely different units - using a kanren with a pistol as the boarding shotgun profile is a much smaller stretch than using him as a Yaokong Remote.

    This isn't a complicated idea, and you are being willfully obtuse and aggressive toward anyone who dares say that CB could have picked a different character so they didn't slap new players in the face, and it's tiresome. Really damn tiresome.

    This isn't me complaining just to be bitter, I don't even play Haqqislam, I just think it is important to take care of new players, to voice valid concerns to CB, and to stand up for the consumer, heaven forbid.
     
    #21 Fyeya, Apr 3, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
    Keyrott, daboarder, Solodice and 8 others like this.
  2. Plebian

    Plebian Well-Known Member

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    While I dislike Backdoor, your poll is pretty silly. Would be more interesting to see whether people liked Backdoor or not.
     
    Keyrott likes this.
  3. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    In a meta where I have to face viral ammunition on a regular basis (due to a recent rise of HB and Tohaa playtime) Bioimmunity is a thing and being able to turn two BTS rolls into one ARM roll is really convenient. On tournaments viral ammunition is seldom though. But I woulde cringe when my 40+ troop would die due to an achilles heel like BTS 0 just because my opponent had a lucky hit. That's corregidor territory - Bakunin can do better (we're the ones with the Black Labs!).

    The concept of Backdoor was an interesting take to add some more narrative background to the season but on the other hand it just din't feel relevant at all.
     
  4. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    This. As much as I hate Tariq (and will promptly head over to the Haqq forum to soak up tears), banning characters and especially ones from starter sets is never going to be good from a customer relations standpoint, even if it's only temporary.

    Giving someone a prize for winning is a much cooler than taking things away from those who didn't win. It's why we give Olympians medals and don't actively penalize other countries for not placing.
     
  5. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

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    Wow, so many rude words. Let`s discuss it in a bit different manner if your stance allows it.

    There are some things that could happen with new player (RV+BRV, we remember) who wants to participate in an event:
    1) He talks with his pals in community. This encourage communication between players. Personally I hate when nothing happens in my local players chat for week or more.
    2) TO most likely allows Tarik to be on an event, because it`s right thing to do - take a step towards new player. Others would understand why some exceptions are made.
    3) Other players may propose to lend miniatures to our hero. I would if there will be such a thing and this new player is a good guy. This also allows to try new possibilities on single event with different other players without proxies and decide what work and what don`t work for him.

    That`s logical thing to happen for healthy community. Of course if it`s toxic and full of guys whose hobby is whipping new players via optimal rosters and win no matter the cost it wouldn`t work. But it wouldn`t work anyway, because toxicity, lack of positive experience etc.


    And yes, I`m bitter to some persons who expect some company to change their diapers because they can`t. This is hobby, player is expected to invest his mind and skills, be able to read and understand what is written. It`s not about money, when I`ve started back in 1st ed, I`ve collected miniatures step by step. Try - buy - try - buy and so on. Tarik will remain with spitfire, some in profile most likely will be changed. After all there was much bigger outcry on initial release when Fatality 2 spitfire was revealed.

    I think allowing Tarik falls into hands of TOs for these five (or how long it takes?) months, it`s not like Olympics here.
    Also great analogy, like we should allow new athletes participate in Olympics without any coaching, training and help. I fail to see why community should not be supportive.
     
    emperorsaistone likes this.
  6. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    I mean I could change the analogy to getting a point for making a foul shot vs breaking your leg if you miss it, I just thought the Olympics seemed easier.

    Also if you're trying to say that there should be a minimum experience required to play ITS, I disagree completely.
     
    loricus likes this.
  7. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    Yeah, I'm generally inclined to agree this wasn't a good idea. It's not even like it's a zero-sum game: Some armies are being hit harder than others, some players are being punished more heavily than others, and other armies were given a bye from the start. And to have Tariq be the Haqq one makes no sense given he's the only character literally sold to newcomers. Players trying to enter ITS may very well need him to fill the gap. It's also even more nonsense given the love of "limited insertion" that seems to be emerging since he's a sixth of the entire army himself.

    Kusanagi is a pretty costly unit herself - and both also allow an SWC buff to add more weapons or hackers.

    In contrast, ALEPH and PanO lose two fairly underwhelming units, that deserve the buff, perhaps. Yujing get reamed by losing one of their two remaining characters having already lost the rest halfway through this event without much in return probably even further off than buffs to these characters (And theirs arguably should have got his buff along with the other Dire Foes stuff getting tweaked!). And Ariadna... don't really mind that they lost Ursarkar E. Creedskov. He's not even from a Sectorial. Tariq isn't either but for vanilla YJ, he's a key part of many armies that don't go Sectorial.

    But it's not JSA levels of shafting, we have one unit on the bench for a while, we're not waiting a whole year for a large chunk of our units to be replenished.

    However, to say we should join the aliens is also a dumb move. Also a bit off is that NA2 aren't affected... despite the fluff/blurb having a Druze character accused.
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  8. Yasashii Fuyu

    Yasashii Fuyu Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for this comment, it's comments like this that hold our community together and help us overcome stupid prejudices and flaming...damn I'm glad we have Warcors for this kind of comments...


    Anyways, sorry for your guys's loss, Kusanagi was quite the iconic Nomad Chars, and having her taken away for a whole season is quite shitty.
     
    Tom McTrouble, Janzerker and Aldo like this.
  9. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    So what exactly happened with the latest rash of bad decisions from CB? Did they finally start earning enough money to afford cocaine on the regular?
     
    Barrogh and Aldo like this.
  10. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    This is silly. It's a temp ban, and they're fixing things.

    When Tarik came out the rage peeps felt was palpable, now that you can't use him, peeps are raging. You can't please everyone, that's a fact.

    CB is trying to keep their game dynamic, and I'm happy for it. But some people don't want things to change, and they're unhappy. See last paragraph.

    Anyway I'm looking forward to seeing what changes in the profiles. And if people are concerned about having useless models, well CB has new proxy rules, use Tarik as an al'fasid, or az'raile, or borrow something.
     
    Mask, emperorsaistone and sarf like this.
  11. Fyeya

    Fyeya Yakitori over a light flamethrower

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    You spend a lot of time insulting people to complain about some 'rude words'.

    That said, I've made my point, and if you can't accept that people don't always want to rely on loaner miniatures/proxies/buying more stuff, I don't know what to tell you. For some players, the draw of having their own army where the miniatures are painted in matching colors and they worked hard on them... is part of the draw.
     
    Keyrott, sarf and Hecaton like this.
  12. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    This. I so want Kusanagi and the old Moira box to get a resculpt. My Bakunin forces have almost zero Observance presence (One sin eater and one custodier), so I don't feel the impact of Kusanagi being benched so much. In fact, I always considered Kusanagi a trap character, in the sense that on her own she's not that great, and unless you commit heavily to her you can't benefit from her buffs or statline, thus trapping you into taking 2-4 extra models to properly benefit from her.

    Honestly, though, I do think a Nomads and CA aliance is coming. It just feels like it. I'm not sure if I like the idea or not, but I am almost sure it will happen either way.
     
    inane.imp likes this.
  13. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    I can't really see this. I'm sure Nomad intelligence and leadership knows what a sepsitor is. If Aleph is the devil because it controls the human sphere an AI that controls the Galaxy and can overwrite YOU practically at will when your cube is replaced doesn't seem like a natural ally.

    I could see Nomads feigning some sort of cooperation with the intention of betrayal. I don't think they're fools though.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I could see Nomads allying with the Exrah pirates that fled the EI though. It'd be an interesting expansion for the Nomad nation to pick up the Concordat remnants as a "4th ship."
     
  15. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

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    I don't like the idea even though I may be picking up CA at some point.

    I feel that they need to minimise the taking away from the game, and making Nomads and CA allies takes a lot away from everyone in that deal - Do the CA in Fluff truly need a relatively powerful ally like the Nomads? An ally that's vulnerable to a swift mass attack? In contrast, making an NA2 Combined-Army sympathetic insurgency or whatever, that adds to the game. CA gain an "Ally" that's not too powerful and also more decentralised, and isn't a sitting duck one-shot diversion? Very useful.

    And of course, they avert the low-fat repeat of the JSA stramash that would happen if they said "lol this army you love is aliens now" out of the blue.

    And pretty much seal Nomads as being against the CA, because I doubt the EI will be happy that we're starting a bug collection from things they tried to fumigate...
     
    DaRedOne likes this.
  16. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    I like the Exrah idea a lot, it seems fun. The CA alliance could be fun so long as it's made ambiguous.

    Aleph is boring as the savior of humanity, aleph is also boring as skynet. Aleph is only interesting because her intentions are unknown. A similarlity vague betrayal by Nomads could be fun too.

    Anyway why are we discussing fun things, let's get back to complaining...
     
  17. Vakarian

    Vakarian Bad Nomad

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    Not going to lie, I would stop playing the game entirely if CB has the Nomads ally with or even aid the CA/EI. It goes against the whole fluff basis for the Nomads - a motley group of renegades and ne'er-do-wells who can't handle centralized authority. Joining the EI makes the least sense of anything the Nomads would do, when they already fight Aleph on the sly.

    I might hang around and play Starco if that faction didn't get affected. Not sure how that would work out with Starco basically being a Nomad mercenary front.

    At any rate, the whole Nomad range I have would end up stuck in a box somewhere and never get used again. I started this faction for the fluff, and I stay with them for the fluff. The models are awesome, sure (but so are other factions'), and we have cool rules and abilities (again, so do other factions).

    The Nomads' background and motivations make them unique in the Sphere. Having them sell out to CA loses all of that.
     
  18. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

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    I agree on some players being more sensitive about their painted miniatures then another. Been there, experienced that. Now I`m more sensitive about miniatures themselves as product of my work. That`s why I cheer to more relaxed conversion rules, it will allow me bring more to table.

    And I like your style. Read through 19 lines of constructive stuff and insult about being rude. GTFO discussing Tarik to appropriate subforum, lol.
     
  19. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%, it`s against all Nomad fluff. I more inclined to believe in Aleph go evil and unite with El story.

    After you said I now wonder is StarCo a lifeboat plan for true rogue Nomads? Pretty shady conspiracy, but?

    I like this idea. New aliens, not aligned with CA would be great. They may be completely separate sectorial inside of Nomads with only 1 or 2 units leaked to vanilla.
     
    Vakarian likes this.
  20. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Shouldn't have done Tarik. Haram to treat first timers like that.

    It will be fine if they leave them in Army with a note.
     
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