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Back Again: Looting and Sabotaging.

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Zandramaas, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. Zandramaas

    Zandramaas Member

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    So then...

    In preparation for an upcoming game I have been looking at Vanilla Aleph lists for Looting and Sabotaging.

    It's an interesting mission that forces you to kill the enemies AC2 with AM weapons in close combat, whilst defending your own. As such this means you require some specifics within your lists. The way I see it there are the following requirements for a viable Looting and Sabotage list:
    1. A DA/EXP melee unit to be the Datatracker. Preferably fast, durable and good at killing. You need to be able to keep it alive whilst charging across the board towards your opponents AC2.
    2. A backup DA/EXP melee unit: something to use if your Datatracker dies or fails to kill the AC2. Redundancy is always important.
    3. A group of strong ARO pieces and/or area denial units such as minelayers or TR bots. Stopping the enemy from killing your AC2 is just as important as killing theirs.
    4. A minor consideration in my view, is bringing specialists to complete the single classified objective. However, being only 1 point I feel the other three options are more important.
    Based on this I started identifying key components/units to bring as a base for the list:
    1. Achilles. In my opinion Achilles is the perfect Datatracker for this mission. He is fast, hard to kill, good at killing and a EXP CC weapon with PH 15 and MA4 is one the best ways in the game of destroying an AC2. However bringing Achilles in this style of list then for me triggers three important auto include units: A CoC Myrmidon Officer, a Danavas HD+ and an Engineer (my preference being a Proxy Mk1). This is because:
      • The CoC Officer allows for you to liberally use the LT order on Achilles whilst being a good gunfighter and bring smoke/eclipse and a specialist to boot.
      • The Danavas HD+ because this allows you to deal with the two of the three mains threats to Achilles with one model. Enemy AHDs and MSV2 (via white noise).
      • An engineer is need because nothing would be worse than getting Achilles glues turn one and not being able to use him and as a bonus the D Charges are a extra way to destroy the AC2.
    2. There are a few options here: Diomedes, Ekdromoi, Krakot Renegades, Ajax and a number of the SP named characters such as Machaon and Eudoros. My preferences here are either (I would also strong consider Ajax but I don;t have the model yet) :
      • Ekdromoi/Diomedes because whilst they are off the table your opponents cannot kill them. They offer a different attack vector and can potentially drop in near the AC2 reducing the number of orders needed to reach melee. And as a bonus they are a usefull offensive trooper good at killing off enemy cheerleaders to reduce their order pool.
      • Krakot Renegades because they are super cheap, can get metachemistry roles that make them faster or harder to kill and the impetuous order can be great for getting up the table to the AC2 for minimal regular orders.
    3. Now this is where picking the right units gets more troublesome. Generally good units for this include:
      • TR bots (although unfortunately the Danavas cannot keep up Assisted Fire and Cybermask at the same time, so this can expose it to enemy hackers).
      • Proxy Mk2 Sniper and the Mk4 HRL.
      • Nagas, preferably minelayers or KHDs.
      • Thorakites, preferably the FO profile to protect my DZ and against AD troopers.
      • Teucer, with NWI, MSV2 and a Feuerbach he can be brilliant, but is expensive and the 2 SWC really hurts.
      • Dasyus, but there are also often quite expensive.
    4. For this final criteria I actually meet a few with the Danavas and the Mk1 Engineer, but where possible I would prefer to include a FO as well.
    5. Other useful things to include would be a KHD to really give enemy hackers a kick in the teeth and defend Achilles more effectively.
    Based on this I have ended up with a few draft lists and I was looking for some critique on each of them and/or some comments on which everyone else would consider the most effective.

    [​IMG] Vanilla Aleph: Looting and Sabotaging
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)
    [​IMG] MYRMIDON OFFICER (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 36)
    [​IMG] NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE Submachine Gun, Chest Mine / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] PROBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE Submachine Gun, Chest Mine / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    [​IMG] Vanilla Aleph: Looting and Sabotaging v2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 73)
    [​IMG] MYRMIDON OFFICER (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 36)
    [​IMG] EKDROMOS Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.4 Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20)
    [​IMG] NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] PROBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    [​IMG] Vanilla Aleph: Looting and Sabotaging v3
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 73)
    [​IMG] MYRMIDON OFFICER (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 36)
    [​IMG] ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE Submachine Gun, Chest Mine / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.4 Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    These lists are all quite similar as they are based off the same framework, but can end up quite different based on the further choices I add.

    Thanks and stuff in advance.
     
  2. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Brother,
    I think these are good lists, and the considerations you made make sense. I would like to add one thing: this mission rewards pretty heavily going first. As a consequence I would do my best to keep the army as a single group.
    In this mission the most important purpose (by far) of the fairest of all heros is to destroy the enemy ACC. (I can't bring myself to write AC2...) Once the ACC is destroyed: mission accomplished. Unlike army poits missions the death of Achilleus will not yield points to your opponent. Keeping Achilleus alive is not a must in this mission. If your opponent is wasting orders to kill Achilleus: these are orders not spent on destroying you own ACC.
    To begin with if anybody, Achilleus is pretty good at getting to your opponent's DZ and bash the ACC. But I agree having a back-up never hurts. Enter Patroclus. Both the posterboi of Aleph and his BFF has EXP CCW (pretty much the best thing you can get to destroy the ACC). On top Patroclus has his own smoke and he is - Wait for it! - unhackable. I would not leave him at home in this mission as the back-up for Achilleus.
    Chances are very, very high, one of the hitmen will succeed, and then you can concentrate on the other part of the mission: namely defending your own ACC.
    Bring the Spitfire variant and you will have pretty good chances in killing the enemy troopers most capable of destroying your own ACC.
    A pair of Minelayer Nagas: when it comes to area denial, you just can't go wrong with these guys.
    A full loadout of Posthumans are the ace of ARO game. The go-to loadout (for me) is Mk1, Mk2 and Mk5.
    Now you want to keep Achilleus, Patroclus and all the ARO pieces alive. Enter Machaon. He brings Eclipse grenades to the table. Worth their weight in gold. Plus he is a capable doctor (Wip15!) with decent CC abilities (DA CCW just in case you need a secound back-up).
    The rest of the army should be Netrods and Thoras with 360 visor and SMG. Thoras in suppressive fire are a beauty to behold. Unless fielded by your opponent.
    So I would go with a list like this:
    [​IMG] Looting and Sabotaging
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Lieutenant Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)
    [​IMG] PATROCLUS (ODD: Optical Disruptor) Spitfire, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (1.5 | 57)
    [​IMG] NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] MACHAON Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] NETROD . (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    Of course, this could use a bit tinkering around, but you know what I mean.
    Besides all the specialist range (doc, FO, engie and hacker) are covered. And there are a huge amount of troopers you can put in suppressive fire.
    I hope, this helps.
     
    #2 Káosz Brigodéros, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
    Zandramaas likes this.
  3. Zandramaas

    Zandramaas Member

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    Firstly, thanks for the reply.

    I always find discussing lists on the forums interesting as you often end up getting introduced to different perspectives. In this case I was personally not too fussed between going first or going second because both have their advantages. If you go first then you can do damage early and potentially get the AC2 destroyed whilst the majority of their army is still in their deployment zone and not ARO'ing to full effect. Conversely, if you go second you play a much more defensive game, trying to whittle down your opponents orders in preparation for a turn 3 push. This has some big advantages as if you can keep enough alive to mount an effective attack and destroy the AC2, you don;t have to consider the opponents next turn and if units are left exposed it doesn't matter.

    I did consider bringing Patroclus and/or Machaon, however my main reason in not doing so was points/SWC. Specifically, I felt that bringing Achilles & Patroclus or Achilles & Machaon ended up bringing too many points way from ARO and defensive options. For example in you list, if you went second (because you may not win the LT roll off) then your AC2 would actually be fairly exposed, as you only really have 2 Minelayer Naga's and 2 Thorakites which are dedicated to defence. Yes, if you went first you would have an extremely good chance to estroy their AC2, but you would also probably expose yourself as the combination of orders to reach and destroy the AC2 will be pretty much all your have. As such thee opponent would have a good chance of destroying your AC2 also and the win would be down to the Datatracker bonus point and the single classified.

    I would be more inclined to consider the addition of Patroclus or Machaon, but unlikely to go for both.

    Just to note, I would agree with the go to proxy loadout being Mk1, Mk2 and Mk5; however for this particular mission the Mk5, although still good, doesn't bring as much as it usually would in a scenario requiring more button pushing. Due to this I was leaning (when the points and SWC are available) to bringing the Mk4. It has a threatening ARO and with 2 wounds and good armour it can force the opponent to spend a bunch of orders to dislodge it and when it finally goes it doesn't lose you an order. Similarly, I like the Mk2 sniper for this mission as a TO camo sniper is a super strong ARO piece that can win you games. The only downside being that due to active proxy rules I couldn't ARO with both the Mk2 and Mk4 at the same time. But if you put them on different firelanes, you can mitigate this.

    I will have a look at making some other variants of the lists, incorporating wither Machaon or Patroclus and see what I end up with.
     
    Káosz Brigodéros likes this.
  4. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Brother,
    all valid points.
    I would like to add three points.
    1) Whoever goes secound is handicapped in this mission. The ability to put defenders in SF is huge in protecting the ACC. Being ready to exploit the opportunity when you do go first is a good idea.
    2) Two Nagas with Boarding Shotguns and mines, Posthumans (Mk5 with two SMGs stock) and a bunch of guys with ODD in addition to the Thoras make a fairly good defense for your ACC. Keep in mind your CC monsters can declare engage once the opponent gets close to your ACC (and slice them up).
    3) Chances are pretty high your opponent will field a TAG as datatracker to destroy your ACC. (Fairly durable to get to the ACC and bare hands has antimaterial per the mission.) I firmly believe parking a TO camo assault hacker next to your ACC is pretty darn useful.
     
    Zandramaas likes this.
  5. Zandramaas

    Zandramaas Member

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    They are also very good points. What about a bit of a compromise between the two.

    I've made two more lists, one with Patroclus and one with Machaon. Both are a single combat group to make the most of potentially going first and include a Naga Minelayer for area denial. I've stuck with the Mk2 sniper and the Mk4 HRL more as a personal preference and I feel the Danavas can do a decent job hacking itself.

    Additionally in a 10 order list, I try to avoid Netrods, they are great but i'd rather try and stick to the 8 point bots as my cheap orders as a minimum in a LI list. Nothing more annoying than starting a 10 order list with 7 orders cause you flubbed a few deployment rolls.

    To note, in the Patroclus list I've got a TR Probot. Something I've never used and I'm not sold on. But I wasn't sure what else fitted with the points, so any other suggestions are welcome.

    [​IMG] Patroclus?
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 73)
    [​IMG] PATROCLUS (ODD: Optical Disruptor) Spitfire, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW. (1.5 | 57)
    [​IMG] NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] PROBOT (Total Reaction, Repeater) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.4 Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army


    [​IMG] Machaon?
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Lieutenant MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 73)
    [​IMG] MACHAON Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.4 Heavy Rocket Launcher, Submachine Gun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE Submachine Gun, Chest Mine / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    6 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Káosz Brigodéros likes this.
  6. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Brother,
    both lists looks good to me! Point is building an army is all about making compromises... From now on there is no easy way out: make up your mind and go try one of the list you like. (You will play, not me!)
    I personally am not fond of Rebots chiefly because they are hackable and being a repeater are a nice gateway to fry the brain of the Danavas hacker. (She lacks marker state!)
    Since they lack infiltration, they will be lurking at the edge of the DZ if you go secound. Conversely I do not see the value added. People keep telling me I should not underestimate the Flash Pulse, but I am not convinced. 4 of them parking at half the table providing a screen to get through is a different story, though.
    In case you dislike the TR Probot (ironically I kinda like this addition - TR is pretty useful if you go secound and clocking in at 16 points the price tag will not break the bank) you can go for a CR Ekdromos (he comes with DA CCW and stealth) or a BS Garuda (won't destroy the ACC but pretty good in killing enemy troopers). I agree the Zayin is superior but quid pro quod.
    Give one of the lists a go!
     
    Zandramaas likes this.
  7. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Here is my thoughts on the Looting and sabotaging question. Hope it helps.

    The idea are :
    - Achilles is very likely to be able to do the destruction job alone so much backup is not an obligation
    - Worst case scenario, specialist can pick up D-Charge n the supplies box. Infiltrated specialist could be deployed near the supplies box to act as back up
    - strong defense is needed to cost as much orders as possible to reach the AC2. It need to be able to work even if you play second.

    With this in mind :
    - No Achilles lieutenant because he will likely be killed and SWC is needed for defence (so no CoC)
    - mk 2 hacker can act as back up for D-Charge or as a defensive piece (boarding shotgun in ARO can be quite destructive if well used, as does Oblivion is the enemy use an HI to rush the AC2.
    - Naga FO can fill a similar role : either going for D-Charge for a back-up attack on the AC2 or helping defense with Supresive Fire and minelaying (very good in ARO with his dogged)
    - double zayin because it always is an order sink to remove two of them
    - double engineer instead of engineer + yudbot : it allow to coordinate order them for a last turn rush on the objective
    - MK5 is a very good short range defensive piece : resilient, able to SF with AP/shock amo, with nanopulser to react against TO/ODD
    - worst case scenario in end game, Machaon can very well be used in the last turn to do some damage to the AC2

    [​IMG] ALEPH
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)
    [​IMG] ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] NAGA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] MACHAON Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #7 Arkhos94, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  8. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Some tips about that particular mission:
    _ ekdromos are good, the humble 20 pt chain rifle profile is quite enough to go and kill the AC2 by himself, provided you can clear the area. Of course, it can't be a datatracker.
    _ don't expect anyone to kill the AC2 in a few orders. It may be, with luck, but more often you'll have to spend at least 4-5 orders just hitting that damn hard thing. Take that into account if you plan a 3rd turn rush. The only ones who can reliably kill it in 2-3 orders are Achilles and Ajax, but these 2 are hackables and don't bring their own smoke - depending on the defense, that may be troublesome
    _ don't try to exclusively kill it with the datatracker. You have to walk through the whole map with a mini that has a BIG flag over it's head. Your opponent want it dead, and if he cannot, he will try to make you lose as many orders as possible. You can use your datatracker as a bait or a diversion through
    _ don't forget demolition charges can be used on the AC2, and these can be gained by looting the supply with a specialist. Read: send Machaon loot some D-charges, then eclipse your way to the AC2 and enjoy D-Charges with MA2 and a yudbot :) If you ran out of D-charges, he still have a DA CCW.
    _ if you have martial arts, the best level is not MA3, it is in order 4 > 2 > 3. Don't use MA3 vs it, use MA4/MA2.
    _ don't forget that a lot of objective points come from keeping your own AC2 alive. Don't commit all your forces to attacking. It is best if you can force your opponent to spend his troops and orders defending (thus limiting his ressources for attacking) while using just a few troops on your own. Secure the area with AHD and suppressive fire thorakites
     
    #8 Nenyx, Jun 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  9. Zandramaas

    Zandramaas Member

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    Interesting. Thanks for your comments.

    I'm definitely seeing some agreement on the 10 order list and bringing Machaon rather than Patroclus as a backup saves some points, SWC, gives me Eclipse grenades and an additional specialist so I can agree with that. between Achilles, machaon and a number of specialists, I think I have plenty of ways of taking down the enemy AC2.

    @Arkhos94 One thing I do want to keep that isn't in your suggestion is the Danavas. I think that the HD+ specifically for White Noise to assist Achilles is just too strong to pass on. As a bonus, assisted fire is also great.

    I think I've narrowed the list down to almost a final one now with one main choice left, a second Zayin TR vs a Minelayer Naga.

    I've fiddled around a little, going to the Mk2 AHD rather than the Sniper; and the Mk5 rather than the Mk4. I've kept the Danavas and taken a Naga KHD, because between the three, I will now always have two strong AROs in hacking regardless of whether it's an enemy hacker, TAG or HI.

    I considered an extra engineer, but I personally didn't think it was needed. I want the Thorakites to be for ARO duty and don't want to have to restrict where I deploy them.

    [​IMG] Vanilla Aleph: Looting and Sabotaging
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)
    [​IMG] MACHAON Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] NAGA (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    [​IMG] Vanilla Aleph: Looting and Sabotaging v2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] ACHILLES Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, EXP CCW. (2.5 | 75)
    [​IMG] MACHAON Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 38)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    [​IMG] THORAKITES (360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Káosz Brigodéros likes this.
  10. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    One thing regarding the danava and Achilles : it's hard to combine the two.

    One of Achilles strengh is his mobility. He is able to go through the whole board, cleaning the enemy DZ. On the other side, the danava is very static and Aleph repeater network very small.

    The only way to use white noise with Achilles is to have him stay close to your DZ wich negate his mobility and his ability to use is spitfire at its full potential (which is : in enemy heavy weaopon bad range)
     
  11. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Or you make him followed by a lamedh, but it will cost many orders and expose the danava to KHD
     
    Káosz Brigodéros likes this.
  12. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Great conversation. Don't forget that your CoC Myrmidon Officer can get the d-charges from the panopolies. Good enough CC that you can't miss even using them and the Eclipse grenades makes a very stable back-up to Achilles in more than just the LT aspect. If it wasn't for a crit EM grenade from Emily, the Officer would have won me the game last time I played after A had a bad series of dice rolls against an AHD.