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B4ckd00r Crisis - Who are we gonna' lose?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Superfluid, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    If he was not in Arianda, he would be one of the most used profiles in game. Not everyone can spam super-cheap regular orders, and cheerleader LT is one that can be kept safe more easily.
     
  2. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    This list begs to face someone with impersonation/camo assasin, who can walk freely to your obvious lt and just open him like a fish turn 1, put you in LoL straight away with very little trouble. Ofcourse you are free to try and discover impersonator and in process discover those camo tokens so that enemy doesn't have to waste time on discovering you and can eliminate you then with his offensive pieces because you are not camoed anymore.
     
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  3. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I can see your reasoning here, but even in other factions he is in such a weird spot for what he does in game (which, lets be honest, is virtually nothing) versus how many points you pay for him (Which, granted, 21 is not many). As I said before, he is such an obvious LT. choice coupled with his larger base size and virtually no defense, he instantly dies to something like a motorcycle or a TO infiltrator. Even in PanO, he doubles the price of a Fusilier LT and offers little more outside of another regular order (which i can just buy another fusilier with the points I'm saving) and an additional 2 WIP (which is only pertinent to one roll in the entire game), AND the fusilier is a better gun fighter (Which is kind of funny).

    He needs a rework badly. It's kind of evident that CB doesn't like these useless characters, probably because they don't sell.
     
  4. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    Absolutely not. Almost everywhere else, 21 points is an absolute bargain in such a package. For one thing, most of the time Lt is obvious anyways - with my Aleph it is a rare day indeed when my Lt is not obvious. And for sure, his stats are not top tier, but with SSL2 and PH12 he is far more survivable to most attacks expected on an Lt - including the rare Impersonator attack runs. At the same time, he is fairly cheap.

    And honestly, he is not that hard to protect, by placing him prone in/on a building. So no, Voronin in any other faction would be an absolute steal, and frankly, he is still good for Ariadna 10 order lists.
     
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  5. Guardian

    Guardian Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    How is an 11 order combat group bad?
     
  6. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    While the points you are making are fair, they can just simply be applied to any grunt or line troop LT. option. which ultimately is the issue because then they are either linkable, easier to hide because of a smaller sillouette value and/or cheaper.
     
  7. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    I strongly disagree:
    • linkability is sometimes an advantage, but requires you to be taking that link, which means both playing a sectorial and then
    • easier to hide due to silouette - true, but in practical terms I have yet to see terrain where I couldn't hide S4 I never plan on moving/using anyway
    • price : here we get into the main advantage of Voronin: he gives 2 orders. Now, sometimes, yes, aggressive Lt can make use of that Lt order. But most time, Lt order is a waste - and this means you are comparing him to 2 troopers. Which again, sometimes they are cheaper or same price (but with rare exceptions, not much cheaper if any), which provides its own advantages (multiple AROs, etc). However, if you are going for a 10 order list; or a group which can really use that 11th order, Voronin is far superior. Not to mention that I think he is far more survivable than any 2 grunt/line troopers due to SSL2
     
  8. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    So dont take it vs haqq....put him prone on a roof or in a building with the irhmandinhos in the doorways.
    I didnt say it was the be all end all but neither is impersonation the auto assasination most people act like it is. You can play around it pretty well if you know what you are doing.

    And hey at the end of the day you dont have to take him vs said faction. Doesnt make him bad....
     
  9. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, aside from playing with friends and such, you won't be able to counterpick against factions. You'll be lucky to have good mission coverage sometimes.
    So you can argue that list with noticeably bad matchups is already not very good.
     
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  10. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    prone on a roof shuts down almost all of those assassination plays "shrug" Id be more scared of spec fire
     
  11. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Decent spec fire platforms, flexible deployment assassins and whatever else are all tools to the same end. The more opponents there are that can fit some of those into their lists, the more rubbish yours is. So, this arguably obly reinforces the point.
     
  12. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    Well, with bigher base it's even more harder to hide him on roof, prone or not. You can't count that you will have tallest building in your DZ. I had prone guys huggin wall shoot down because there was bigger building and other guy could shoot from it and hit my guy prone on roof.
     
  13. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    Dunno about big disadvantage with link teams. Played SP only few times just for fun in all these years, borrowed them to take them for a spin on latest tournament, ended 1st...nuff said. 10 orders. Used achiless and hector as lt, wouldn't trade them for voronin I can tell you that. That lt order was always well spent.

    Again, 10 or 11 order arianda list does't work that well. Only reason I took SP instead of ariadna to tournament was because I knew SP would be much more effective with 10 models, guess I was right.

    Dunno why is he much more survivavable to do SSl2 compared to 2 grunts or kazaks hidden in some corner so no one can come to them except from front side. And if something does come, usually it will be dangerous enough so Ssl2 won't really help you all that much. Grunt at least has heavy flamer and light shotgun so he is much more dangerous for enemy if it comes closer, and on top of that, most important thing is, they are not obvious lt.

    One of ariadna strenghts are plenty of cheap orders and not obvious lt's. Wanting to negate yourself these advantages seems counter productive. It's like, okay I will play SP but I don't want to take advantage of link teams so I won't use them...
    Ariadna can do 10 orders, thing is, others can do it better with better troups. And having link teams is great advantage in those 10 man teams. Since you won't spent 5 orders to move 5 guys, you will spend 1. And on top of that, you just got those juicy link team bonuses voronin army doesnt have.
     
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