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Avatar & CA

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Flipswitch, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    Hi fellow CAites.

    Now our shiny new Avatar is out, I figured I'd get the ball rolling on using him, what type of lists and people playing and what types of support troops?

    I've been finding a Speculo is a nice addition to him to ward the early game attention off the Avatar and onto the Speculo. After that I start looking for base coverage, so double Ikadron, M-Drone and maybe an Imetron.

    What do people take?
     
  2. sanyv

    sanyv Active Member

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    I'd add an engineer (Kurgat, because he's cheaper and I'm a bit short on points). And I'd try to add some mid table support in order to keep warbands/flamers away, and coordinate mine laying (because DIE HUMAN SCUM).
    Ok I know I don't make much sense, but the week has been long.
    Anyway my current try :
    [​IMG] Combined Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] ZERAT (Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, Grenades, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Might try to include Bit&Kiss... Should be a good idea.
     
  3. Plex

    Plex Taagma without a scheme

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    I know the Avatar seems custom built for single combat groups, but I never feel safe bringing one without a second group of hungries to form a living wall between the big cheese and any potential CC ambushes.

    I also feel like I need an m drone for sensor action, and 2 Kurgats. But, I always feel like I need 2 Kurgats.
     
  4. C0MR4DE

    C0MR4DE Malfunctioning Unidron

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    [​IMG] A1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] KO DALI Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. (0 | 38)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    4.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  5. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    I've run this for L&S twice recently. Alternate the Speculo for a Maakrep or other 30ish point unit.


    [​IMG] L&S Badonkadonk
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] UMBRA LEGATE Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, Flash Pulse / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 43)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  6. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    We've been practicing a lot of Loot and Sabotage lately. The two BEST units to handle the AC2 in CA are Sheskiin and the Rasyat.

    Do you plan to have the Avatar or the Umbra take it down?
     
  7. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    Both of those are decent units to knock out the console.

    Rasyat is probably more efficient than my plan, but maybe not if you want to drop the console with the DT. I don't have a lot of experience with Sheskiin; she looks ideal for the role, but just doesn't support the rest of my list quite as well as the Umbra.

    In this list I my plan is using the Legate as a DT, getting him to a panoply first, pulling d-charges, and then making a run at the console using B2 from MA4 to hit it with 2 charges on the first attack on 18s.

    If I need smoke on the console then I use a Daturazi, and then can put White Noise down if needed.

    As this is a lot of orders, and I usually need the Avatar to take down a few defensive units first, I set it up on turn one and then make the run with the Legate on turn 2 or 3 depending on how tough my opponent's defenses are (or how the dice have gone).

    The back up plan is the Avatar, or in a pinch Dr Worm, he actually took the console past unconcious for me in one match because he's so dammed fast.

    White Noise has also been helpful in supporting the Avatar's attacks because of the extensive repeater coverage in the list.

    I don't know if this list is ideal, but it's been working. I have regretted not taking a MSV-2 in a defensive role covering my console. The Specluo has been vital in damaging massed defenses on the opponent's console, but I am considering putting in a Maakrep or Yaogat in its place.
     
    Reece likes this.
  8. C0MR4DE

    C0MR4DE Malfunctioning Unidron

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    Krakot renegade?:)
    DA ccw, good skills from metachemistry l2 and the berserk's +6. So he roll to 27.
     
  9. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    I think the Krakot with a DA weapon makes a decent backup console killer, but even with Super-Physique he only has the following chances to do wounds per activation:

    Active Player
    67.60% Custom Unit inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 STR)
    18.40% Custom Unit inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 STR)

    Failures
    32.40% No success


    The Rasyat with D-Charges has the following:

    Active Player
    91.80% Rasyat Diplomatic Division inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 W)
    59.70% Rasyat Diplomatic Division inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 W)
    18.00% Rasyat Diplomatic Division inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)

    Failures
    8.20% No success
    (see posts below, this was edited for accuracy)


    Sheskiin using D-Charges is:


    Active Player
    88.75% Cadmus-Naish Agent Sheskiin inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 STR)
    52.50% Cadmus-Naish Agent Sheskiin inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 STR)
    13.75% Cadmus-Naish Agent Sheskiin inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)

    Failures
    11.25% No success


    Umbra Legate MA4 with D-Charges is:


    Active Player
    95.75% Umbra Legates inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 STR)
    82.08% Umbra Legates inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 STR)
    56.93% Umbra Legates inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)
    29.26% Umbra Legates inflicts 4 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Dead)

    Failures
    4.25% No success


    Basically D-Charges on high CC units are winning this contest hands down.

    Even the Sphinx tends more towards the Krakot's level of success but the Sphinx's speed, durability, and token state help.

    Active Player
    71.64% Special Armoured Corp Sphinx inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 W)
    33.12% Special Armoured Corp Sphinx inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 W)
    6.24% Special Armoured Corp Sphinx inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)

    Failures
    28.36% No success

    Daturazi with DA weapons are decent back up saboteurs too when using MA4:

    Active Player
    80.55% Dāturazi Witch-Soldiers inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 W)
    41.04% Dāturazi Witch-Soldiers inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 W)
    11.18% Dāturazi Witch-Soldiers inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)
    1.23% Dāturazi Witch-Soldiers inflicts 4 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Dead)

    Failures
    19.45% No success

    In Combined, outside a Daturazi, the Umbra Legate is the only unit that can drop the console past unconscious in one attack... well without help from more units in BtB of the console anyway.

    With nearly a 30% chance, it can happen but not relaibly, it usually takes two attacks. With only a 5% chance to fail the first attack, the console typically only lasts two attacks; even with worse than average rolls.

    I really like using the Legate. It's worth noting that the Legate Hacker doesn't come with D-Charges, and that he is forced to pull them from a panoply. This can be a challenge but since it is also a scoring condition to open panoplies, a specialist can pick d-charges in this scenario on WIP to open success, the Legate has a 6" first move skill which helps with scoring objectives, and he has to cross the board to kill the console anyway; well it kind of works out.

    Sheskiin is just plain faster but still may need a smoke thrower. The Rasyat is a more self-contained solution and efficient because of AD and Eclipse smoke despite his 4-2 move, but he cannot be the DT and be efficient. They are both solid options as a primary console killer. They are probably are more order efficient than the Legate, depending on how lucky they are when they get to the console.
     
    #9 jfunkd, Nov 27, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  10. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    For your calculations on the Rasyat at, did you include +3 CC and +1 Dam for NBW? ;)
     
    jfunkd likes this.
  11. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    I just double checked and the Rasyat doesn't seem to include the NBW check box in the Infnity dice calc. Good catch! I just assumed it was there.

    I did have to use the custom weapon for the D-Charge with its traits and manually add a -3 modifier to the attacker's roll to get it to work. So by fixing it here is the Rasyat's chances which are significantly improved from my previous post:

    Active Player
    91.80% Rasyat Diplomatic Division inflicts 1 or more wounds on Custom Unit (2 W)
    59.70% Rasyat Diplomatic Division inflicts 2 or more wounds on Custom Unit (1 W)
    18.00% Rasyat Diplomatic Division inflicts 3 or more wounds on Custom Unit (Unconscious)

    Failures
    8.20% No success

    (FYI these numbers do not include a +1 damage, as NBW doesn't buff D-Charge's damage)
     
    #11 jfunkd, Nov 27, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  12. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Remember that a D-Charges do not get the +1 Damage. Only CCWs with Damage based on PH get the +1.
     
    colbrook likes this.
  13. Flipswitch

    Flipswitch Sepsitorised by Intent
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    Played vs Bakunin with this, they had a Riot Grrl Team.


    [​IMG] Mr. Cuddles
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Submachine Guns, Chest Mine / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Initial deployment made me REALLY wish I had BNK. But I ended up not needing them. Managed to Sepsitorise 3/5 members of the Grrl team with the ML Noct bagging the last two.
     
  14. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    For real?? I might have messed that one up. I thought they did benefit. I'll have to look up why.

    I know Prothieon spells out that it doesn't combine any other CCW attributes. But I can't find it for MA.
     
    #14 Reece, Nov 27, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  15. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    Reece likes this.
  16. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    Thanks! All the extra wording involved in Monofilament and other places, along with some memory of reading they stacked made me think otherwise.
     
  17. zavros

    zavros Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] Avatar
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] KRAKOT RENEGADE 2 Chain Rifles, Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] NEXUS Hacker (EI Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Nullifier / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    For me its all about protecting the avatar from its weaknesses.
    Lots of templates to keep away warband models and other infiltrators.
    The minelayers to stop annoying infiltrators like ninjas and warbands.
    Krakots can berserk a cc specialist off of your avatar.
    The nexus hacker can place a nullifier to ignore hackers and the occasional jammer.
    Now we have Bit+Kiss to take out other hackers and extra defensive coverage with kiss and repeater.
    Dr Wurm to repair ODD and Struct on avatar.

    Deployment going first:
    The held models are dependent on what faction opponent is playing. For Ex. against nomads I'm likely to hold back the hackers.
    Default is avatar and Bit/Kiss as they are most likely what I will be spending orders on.

    Deployment going second:
    Held models are almost always minelayers. I want to see if my opponent is missing points and cut off access for drop troopers and infiltrators.
    Avatar is almost always peeking out for defense, I feel fairly safe against any long range attacks that are not a 5 man riot girl missle launcher.
    He should be able to fail guts and fall back behind total cover, so don't deploy people right next to him.
    The entire list is support, so most of the troops should be nearby. Deploying in a corner is perfectly acceptable.
    One of the minelayers should be near the avatar with a mine to prevent models from getting too close. Ideally the mine should be placed to pop on anyone approaching the front or back.

    My opening moves with avatar:
    -Sepsitor my opponent's infiltrators
    This can hurt a lot for some factions, they need those infiltrators to do objectives. Intuitive attack if you can, wip 17 will very likely beat out your opponent's roll. Plus you don't have to move up much and can easily go back to your defensive position with minimal orders. Against ariadna your just discover+shooting with your wip 17(don't get close though).
    -Shoot stuff
    Easy peasy. This is what you were built to do. Just don't push up, long range is where you want to be.
    -Kill hackers
    With bit and kiss, we can actually try to root out enemy hackers before moving up with the avatar. Even with bts 9, you don't want to be tanking hacking attacks with the avatar as it can negate your entire turn.
    -Rambo
    Sometimes an opponent tries to play it safe and not leave anything out. Walk avatar up a flank and sepsitor a chunk of the back line, then set up in suppressive fire. Now opponent has to fight through a bunch of models to even reach your avatar.

    Tips:
    -Use coordinated orders to move sepsitorized models around, don't waste individual orders on them unless they are going to do something important (like take an objective).
    -When in doubt, don't move up. The further up the board you go, the easier it is to flank you and kill your avatar.
    -If your having trouble doing objectives, switch one of the shrouded to a forward observer. Personally I want the minelayer more often and can usually do objectives with Dr Wurm or the avatar's staldron.
    -You can bully your way out of bad situations. Arm 9 and 3 struct lets you take some shots for free if you really need to be somewhere.
     
  18. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    On the topic of the Avatar, I almost ALWAYS bring along an Umbra HD+ for that sweet sweet White Noise. It REALLY gives the Avatar a boost.
     
    Flipswitch and jfunkd like this.
  19. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Thats an excellent team. With the Avatar, he is the be all/end all of the list. So everything else has to be supporting him. The Krakot Renegades are quite good in that regard. Personally, I'd stick in a Q-Drone somehow but thats just me.
     
  20. C0MR4DE

    C0MR4DE Malfunctioning Unidron

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    It is just lacks the slave drones :)
    But if they put the Avatar into imm 2 or isolated, you can pull him back to base with ikadron :)