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Assault and Surprise Attack

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Commoner1, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. Commoner1

    Commoner1 Well-Known Member

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    Simple question:

    Can Surprise Attack and Assault be combined? I want to give Pavel McMannus a try soon and I never thought about this particular combination.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I think not as Assault specifies CC Attack, and Surprise Attack doesn't have the CC Attack label (compare to Surprise Shot which does have the BS Attack label) though I wouldn't be surprised (hah) if an FAQ ruled that you could combine them.

    It'll be irrelevant in a couple of months though as in C1/N4 Surprise Attack is an Automatic Skill that can be used with a BS/CC Attack rather than their own skills.
     
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  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Strict RAW, no.

    RAI, yes go for it. I'm not 100% certain but my memory is that this was the vibe when asked previously.

    I mean by strict RAW a Surprise Shot Redrum has the BS Attack trait. So it's obvious that RAW Surprise Shot is screwy.

    Also, as Colbrook says: N3 is dead, long live N4.
     
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  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Strictly RAW: yes you can combine them. Assault and Surprise Attack are both CC Special Skills and as such can be used and combined.

    http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/CC_Special_Skills


    If a trooper has more than one CC Special Skill, he can use them all and combine their effects. For instance, a trooper with Berserk and Martial Arts can apply both and combine the MODs provided by the former with the MODs of one of the Levels of the latter.
     
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  5. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I can see that interpretation... but that’s treating Surprise Attack like it’s an Automatic Skill when it’s actually a Short Skill, and I don’t think that’s actually supported by the rules.

    I do think it goes to intent and I’d certainly allow it. So it’s semantics.
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you want to nitpick...

    1. Surprise Attack doesn't actually ever state you make an attack, it relies on you implicitly also declaring CC Attack at the same time
    2. The basic rules for CC Special Skills also state that these skills work when the trooper is in base contact with an opponent, which means that Assault can never actually be used.
    3. The below FAQ entry states that Automatic CC Special Skills can only be used when declaring the CC Attack skill, which Surprise Attack is not, as we have concluded.
    4. Yes, the rules do state "unless specified otherwise by the skill", but because CB tends to write rules with plenty of repetitions with variations and with examples specifying interactions that are not defined by the rules, that also means it's impossible to at a glance know if there is an "otherwise" specified.

    I think that you'd have to make allowances for both skills relevant to this topic in order to use them at all. So long live N4, indeed. Hopefully.

    Q: When can CC Special Skills be used? A: Automatic CC Special Skills that have the Attack label can only be used when declaring CC Attack, unless specified otherwise in the Skill.
     
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  7. Commoner1

    Commoner1 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all for the clarification and conformation. Since N3 is on its way out I'm not really paying attention to any kind of rules discussions so I have become a bit rusty since january. I don't think it will come up, but I always try to avoid gotcha-moments for both sides, so I asked anyway. :-)