Armour Penetrating Kokram: Working with the Guijia+Krit duo (vanilla & IA)

@Weathercock I as well have been thinking about how Guija can work out. Im getting to the point where I have my own understanding of the on tabletop value of units and skills. Its about time. :D

I get that some profiles are optimized and are best in slot so to speak. But I have a philosophy I use in this game. "Crits happen, a combi rifle is still a combi rifle, and players make mistakes". Im sure this will evolve over time.

I think the Gujia is a great unit. The Gujias strength is in its mobility (compared to the other options). It has 8 ARM. One weapon that kills things with Dam 16 (now). It also has a Damage 15 heavy flammer that is very mobile and can clear out cammo.

The last game I played was Show of Force. My Gujia killed a nomad salamndar whith a heavy flamer. It failed its ARM saves until it died. That let me clean up ther rest of the table.

I want to play well with Sun v2 as well. Its just a matter of play testing for me to see if it can work out.

The lists will be very tight and little room for error.
Are you looking for a generic well rounded list or mission specific?

 

Im not really sure what synergises well with the Evo other than Jump Troops and Sat lock bots.

What is the best use of the Evo aside team pro?

I think that would be a natrual quest first question beacuse an Evo is needed.

 

Honestly, I think the best thing going for the Guija in vanilla is the same benefit that all our HI pieces have, 4 Kuang Shi and a Celestial Guard controller for 33/.5. I'd make that your starting point for a list.

An EVO hacker boosts AD troops, if you're set on taking one a good way to leverage it's benefits is a Tiger Soldier, as well as lots of cheap flash pulse bots that work nicely with Overclock.

 

Ok, of the potential synergy with the Evo Hacker and Sensor bots...You can include a Weibing Yaokong, a Son-Bae and a Kan Ren Minelayer(this guy brings sniffers around instead of mines), so you start with the reserve potential(kan ren) of setting up guided Missiles against mid-field Skirmishers you don’t want anywhere near your Guijia, Krokram (Jammers for instance) or if going second masquerading as a scary/Juicy Target (forsaking both the Minelayer and the FD2) to bait your opponent into going into him (Obvious Lt. Options in Vanilla as single Celestial Guard on his own can work, Zhanying Lt, Zhanshi LT, you get the general idea, Weak Doctors, Medics, Hackers), this of course can work quite nicely for Armies with Alpha Strikers who don’t want to eat mines or templates from Guijia+Krit.

My two Cents, if you can squeeze Sun Tze with this combo and Guijia Duo it’d make for a list I’d love to play.

I’d prefer Kan ren in this list over ninja because it can potentially bring max Synergy for your Hackers (If Any alongside your EVO)/Remotes while also being on the table granting you his order for more efficiency and his holoechos can help trip mines in the mid field helping clear a path for the guijia.

If Guided Missiles aren’t your schtick, feel free to use Grenade Launchers/Grenades for your targeted enemies.

A Rui Shi would be most advised as well since you’ll need some MSV2 since Guijia lacks it and Sunny T brings MSV1 if V.2, since you’ll probably be bringing engineer, Evo Hacker and Remotes a Rui shi is a natural inclusion.


And Never forget if using Kan ren, you can Imitate any S2 model in the Faction, along with an imitation of their marker state(correct me if I’m wrong I’m not sure of this one)

 

Well, it's 152 pts just to duo them in generic. Half of the list…

From my point of view I would simply forget about Sun Tze and instead of trying to fit a sensor net like you I would put a lot of chaff to act as a deterrent. As much as I dislike that way to tailor the list I don't think you have many options given the huge expense that duo means.

Yu Jing
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 8 1 4
KOKRAM FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, Chain-colt, E/Mauler / 2 Heavy Pistols, Knife. (0 | 39)
GŪIJIĂ MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / DA CCW. (2 | 88)
GŪIJIĂ PILOT Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. ()
PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)

GROUP 2 3 2 2
MAJOR LUNAH Viral Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)
SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open in Infinity Army

Your previous list was putting all the eggs on that duo, but if the Guijia falls then you don't have much left able to firefight effectively. Personally I would add the always reliable Rui Shi and support to buff it with assisted fire. The idea is that Rui Shi can keep up the pace with the duo easily, following them to protect from the so undesirable smoke toting dogged warbands. When the duo needs to retreat to a defensive position to get ready for the reactive turn, a buffed Rui Shi in supression fire is something to keep in mind. Of course it can also perform as the camo hunter we love so much. Lunah adds another layer of defense with an unexpected ARO as well as helping to conceal the Dao Ying location during the first moments of the game. Guilang for added support: pushes buttons, is a reliable midfield fighter and with careful use can extend Dao Ying's hacking range. Kuang Shi and Shaolin for smoke and chaff, acting as a deterrent by risking adversary to asymmetrical trades and because is what you throw at very annoying mooks such as Ghazi, Helots and such. Also, a Shaolin with enough orders can ruin adversary's most powerful pieces if he can manage to engage them in CC. Something to keep in mind in crowded closed spaces like objective rooms.

The only thing I feel missing is a KHD. If you really want it you can try to swap Lunah with a KHD ninja or a KHD Kanren. Probably the later for the shenanigans allowed by the Holo 2 (mind tricks , mine cleaning, etc ). For the moment I would try to stick to the extra long range firepower of her viral sniper rifle and make changes if needed after having experienced a few games.

 

Correct if I am wrong, Is it order Intensive to keep up the team dou?

Im guessing the Daoying L2 is profiding buff assistNve for the rest of the army.

 

Duo kokram guijia──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1 10 4 GŪIJIĂ Lieutenant MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / DA CCW. (3 | 88) GŪIJIĂ PILOT Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. () KOKRAM FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Combi Rifle + E/Mitter, Chain-colt, E/Mauler / 2 Heavy Pistols, Knife. (0 | 39) CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) KUANG SHI Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5) GŬILÁNG (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20) CHAĪYÌ Yaókòng Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)GROUP 2 3 1 1 PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) NINJA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Tactical Bow / Pistol, DA CCW, Knife. (0 | 29) HÙSÒNG Yaókòng HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25) SHAOLIN Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 5) 6 SWC | 299 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

I was looking at something like this, though I with I could fit more chaff in there.

 

@Weathercock why did you title this with "armor penetating"?

 

I quit building vanilla lists with Krit and the Guijia for the following reasons:
- Explaining to my opponent that in this case, it is possible to TeamPro these two together while in every other case it was not is not worth it.
- The Daoying LT2 is enough to buff bots or AD combat jump, I don't need the EVO for that.
- There are not enough points for taking the Duo, the EVO, the Daoying AND an NCO trooper to use its LT2 orders.
- I don't repair the Guijia in the first place since I cannot reroll that. Maybe on its last wound. But you could use the pilot then instead.

 

This is obviously just my opinion, but I still don't think the Guija is worth taking.

I love the Guija, it's an amazing model, and I happily field it because I like playing with a TAG, but not because (in my opinion) it's ever the best tool for the job.

One extra order doesn't make up for the Guija's, not deficiencies so much as lack of flair.

Except for missions that require a TAG to score maximum points, there are just other models in the Yu Jing range that perform better than a Guija, and far cheaper to boot.

The Guija is just a big shiny HMG. It just needs something to make it have a niche, an APHMG for example would make me field it as a premier armour buster!

Otherwise, when I plan a list, I find that the Guija just isn't a cost-effective way to spend my points unfortunately.

As far as TAGs go it's acceptably basic. But it's just overshadowed in our faction by other options.

 

So it does! I knew that too, I must have my head in the clouds today.

The Guija is pretty bare bones anyways, so dialling back the cost isn't super necessary I think. Having the option of an explosive ARO is always nice.

Well, that makes the Guija a bit more appealing, though I still think that there are more effective pieces in the Yu Jing arsenal that take precedence over our TAG.

But it may just see some more playtime from me now.

 

I think he is worth taking. You just have to support him.

I am enjoying the +1 damage mod, extra move, mobility, and heavy flamer. I do my best to keep him in cover. I also support him with a hacker and or lui AHD or Guilang AHD. There is no tougher more mobile unit than the Guija in Yu Jing. Sure you can get cheaper guns but they dont move 6-4 and have AP with armor 11 in cover.

Granted I playing players my level of skill. I won my last 3 games with a Guija. If I go second I try to put him in total cover and make sure repeaters are around. Ninja khd waiting around too. I just setup to make if as difficult as possible for some on to come get him first turn. I even had shit krit in a dou with him. Never had to use him.

He has fire damage thats damge 15 on a 10.5 inch template. What over unit in Yu ching has that? Fire procs are amazing.

I think he is worth it if you play to his strenghts.