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Ariadna in N4

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. melkiach

    melkiach Well-Known Member

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    it's just a diversion tactic to evoid spamming all the monthly threads until summer 2020

    With this thread created, all the spam comes here

    PD: Ariadna need a limited camo guy with Light Rocket Launcher and Forward Deploy lvl 2! :D
     
  2. Scribbler

    Scribbler Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to echo what everyone else is saying that overall Ariadna is in a good spot, and I don't think there's anything that needs to be fixed right now, with the exception of the entirety of MRRF. I like the changes that were made to the Merovingians last year, but I still think the sectorial needs to be completely overhauled and brought up to the standards of current sectorials. Again, I personally don't think this is absolutely necessary at the moment, but I would like to see an update to MRRF sometime in the relatively near future and don't want to see them stagnate like they were.

    In addition that, here are some general changes that I think would do the faction some good. If anyone has a different opinion, feel free to share it with me!

    1) While I haven't ever used the motorized 112, I think it could use a tweak. I can see some utility with it bringing a smoke grenade launcher and having the faster movement to close the distance between itself and wounded troops, but with costing SWC 1, I don't see myself ever seriously using it because I think the SWC can be better used elsewhere. I think dropping the SWC cost from the motorized 112 entirely would make feel like a SWC sink and make an interesting choice between the 112 profiles: you can take the 112 on foot for cheaper, or the faster motorcycle for more points.

    2) Traktor Muls need some improvements. While I think that the Katyusha is in a good spot as a dedicated spec-fire/guided artillery piece, the Uragan is more of a liability than an asset in my estimation. This is because the BS of the Muls is quite low, and the Uragans range bands are the same as a rifle. I think that the biggest improvement that could be made is to make the Uragan have good range up to 24", which would make it very usable in Araidna while keeping the Uragan unique to the other faction's TR REMs. A bump in BS would be cool, but I don't think its strictly necessary.

    3) I fully understand and agree with the idea that Ariadna doesn't need a TAG. But the writer in me really would like to see one added because if my memory is correct, the fluff already mentions the RM-100 as a sort of prototype TAG. I would love to see the concept fleshed out more, just for fun. It doesn't need to be anything special, just usable, and it shouldn't be better than any other faction's TAGs. Maybe give it some level of Lo-Tech?

    And in regards to the health of the sectorials:

    Caledonia: CHA is pretty middle-of-the-road as far as sectorials go. It's not too powerful or too weak, and is lots of fun to play because it is incredibly flavorful with a very distinct playstyle that has its own strengths and weaknesses. The character of this army also melds nicely with Ariadna overall with its rough and gritty, low-tech feeling while also adding a wild, run-up-and-stab-you attitude unique to Caledonia. With that being said:

    1) The Caledonian volunteers are great as link fillers for buffing Wallace and the Greys, but that's about all that they're good for. The Limited camo/Inferior infiltration volunteers are a cool idea, but the lack of a template weapon and low BS of these troops means that I don't see those profiles getting any table time. I think that giving them chain rifles would make them a lot more interesting, although I do see them competing with Grunt infiltrators for space in vanilla.

    2) I think the Mormaers could use a 0.5 SWC drop on the AP HMG profiles. Right now the Mormaer AP HMG costs 2 SWC while the Grey costs 1.5 for the same weapon and I don't see a reason why. Additionally, the Mormaer haris faces stiff competition from the Wulver haris, which is cheaper, more mobile, and better suited for launching an assault. I feel that there isn't really a reason to take the Mormaer in CHA because for everything that it does, there's something else in the sectorial that can do it cheaper and more effectively. I don't have any specific improvements in mind for the Mormaers, though, so I'm open to suggestions. Maybe some kind of command ability, or a skill like Veteran L1?

    3) This one is more of a wishlist, but I think the SAS could use a profile with Ambush camouflage. The SASCRAP already acts sort of like a mine, and I think that giving one or two profiles Ambush camo would give CHA a better capacity for mind games. Maybe this could only be available to CHA also, because doing this in vanilla would possibly push the camo shell game a ridiculous level.

    4) William Wallace should be listed as a fireteam: wildcard. My understanding is that he already functions that way, but the wording of the special fireteam box causes some ambiguity that simply doesn't need to be there.

    USAriadna: USARF is pretty mediocre, in my opinion. It's got some strong profiles, and those profiles overshadow everything else. Additionally, USARF isn't as fluffy as I think it should be and everything that it does do TAK can do better, so I think it needs some more character development. I would like to see USARF become a sort of heavy-hitter, hard-to-budge army while TAK is more elite:

    1) The Unknown Ranger needs an overhaul. I think he would benefit most from a points/SWC reduction, and I think it would be really cool to give him fireteam: wildcard. Scavenger is also pretty pointless on him because his CC weapons are more likely to kill his opponents outright and make the skill useless. I think Scavenger should be replaced by Shock immunity.

    2) The Marauders are very good, but they need a different specialist option than the paramedic because Dogged totally defeats the purpose of having a paramedic in the team. A FO or Engineer option would be good, and maybe give one of the profiles D-Charges.

    3) The Maverick SWC costs could use a rejiggering. The molotok profile is a bit expensive for my taste and could stand to go down 0.5-1 SWC because the Maverick can't take cover. Additionally, the FO profile costs 0.5 SWC, and I really don't think there's any reason that should be the case.

    4) Grunts are good, and I can see why the LGL lieutenant costs 1 SWC, but I don't understand why the rifle lieutenant also costs SWC. I think that the rifle lieutenant shouldn't cost SWC.

    5) There really isn't any reason to field the Minutemen because the Marauders basically do the same thing they do, but better. I would suggest that, to differentiate the Minutemen and make them a viable choice, they could be given a Doctor option because the medical pouches on the models would suggest this and allowed to join a Grunt fireteam. They could also use some more resiliency in the form of Dogged/NWI and ARM 4 (I've never been able to understand how they have the same ARM value as the Marauders despite being more heavily armored). I know this will make them an inferior version of the Vet Kazak in vanilla, but I think that might balance out because they should be cheaper and and I'm more concerned with making the Minutemen shine in their sectorial.

    6) Giving the Foxtrot Rangers a minelayer option would be cool, and the lieutenant profile probably doesn't need to be 2 SWC.

    7) The Devil Dog team is in a weird place because it doesn't really know what it wants to be. It's not as effective as the other types of dog-warrior in attacking because it only has 1 chain rifle or a heavy shotgun, and I think it costs way too much. Additionally, it doesn't function so well as a sensor unit because of Extreme Impetuous. I think a price drop would be in order, and a change to regular Impetuous or Frenzy.

    8) Just for fun, maybe another troop should get an option to have a G:synced K-9 antipode, and the Devil Dog should get an option without the antipode.

    9) Minor nitpick, but the lieutenant Airborne Ranger really doesn't need to be there. If you bring it, you either start in LoL, or deploy it normally alongside the rest of your forces, thus defeating the purpose of AD.

    Kazaks: I think the Kazaks are right where they need to be. There's very little in the way of non-options, and TAK is very effective at dishing out punishment to its enemies. It also captures the character of elite and slightly higher-tech Ariadna very well, so I can really only offer nitpicks:

    1) The Kazak Doktor doesn't feel like it has a place in TAK and struggles to get any love against the more ubiquitous 112. I think it could be differentiated by being made the linkteam doctor of choice instead of the 112, being able to join a Line Kazak fireteam and a Frontovik special fireteam. I'm not too worried about the 112 being edged out of TAK because it is available to the other Ariadna sectorials and will see lots of table time there.

    2) I would like to see the Spetsnaz sniper tweaked because there's no real reason to use it over a HMG Spetsnaz. Maybe it should be given MMLX and/or AP ammunition to differentiate it?
    Hopefully this would also not render the Scout AP sniper obsolete.

    3) This is more a model gripe than a rules gripe, but I wish that the Tankhunters would get a new autocannon model. The current one doesn't look anything like the new Tankhunters, and its old and ugly on top of that.

    4) I think the HRL Ratnik should be given an 2 HRLs instead of 1. The model looks like it has 2 on it.

    5) Kuryer Muls need some sort of differentiation from the regular Traktor Muls. ECM, minelayer, and BS 11 just doesn't cut it.
     
    #22 Scribbler, Aug 9, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
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  3. D_acolyte

    D_acolyte Member

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    What I want is rather simple.... A TANK!!! It could count as a TAG or be an overhaul of the mule.
    Otherwise I have problems with TAK as it seems more like a general refinement of Ariadna and not a secitorial, it seems anything any other Ariadna can do TAK can do it and do it better or at least no worse.
    I would like assault hackers and eclipse grenades.
    I feel like the tech of Ariadna needs to advance, they should have gotten a bunch as salvage from the initial war so it is time to show it to us.
    Hidden deployment without TO would also be interesting to give to them, it represents a guy coming out of a hidden nook.
    With Ariadna as it is I think it is to reliant on the camo models.
     
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  4. RimeNZ

    RimeNZ New Member

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    Hi there, Ive been lurking for a while but I feel I should contribute to this. Some things I would like to see happen to Ariadna are:

    1. The Line Kazak Doc should at the least should count as a Line Kazak for fireteam compositions. Seems odd that the French 112 can link to Tak units while the LK Doc cannot.

    2. Id like to see Zouaves gain some 0 SWC options. For a faction that is noted for its mobility and rapid deployment in the fluff, the profiles shouldn't penalize and discourage you from taking those units. Mechanized Deployment has a cost/benefit built into it already.

    3.I'd like to see a generic/unnamed "Mirage-X" team. The profile doesn't need to be a human and Dog Warrior either.

    4.I think the Unknown Ranger could do with a reduction in cost. While I don't know CB's cost formula. I'd hazard a guess that ARM 4 on a Light Infantry profile is more costly than on a HI profile. He should become a Ariadnan HI if it means a point reduction (Plus shock immunity).

    And lastly the Traktor Muls, I'd like to see them have a more usable +3 range band. Like 8" to 24" would make them more appealing to use over the current 8 to 16. As it feels like to me its only really worth taking the 5 point baggage bot at the moment.
     
  5. FreezeZ

    FreezeZ Active Member

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    For Kuryers maybe drop baggage, make them S3 and give something like HMG or Molotok. I general, make them more offensive unit. Also at least katyusha need +3 range band longer. 8"-24" or even 8"-32". It's B1. Uragan has B3 and TR, so he is okay with short range.
     
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  6. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    I've been out of the game for several months now and just cycling back in so aside from a general looking at of all the factions (FRRM too please) can we please either let the Kazak doktor link with something, anything, or axe the profile and upgrade the Line Kazak Paramedic, another solo doctor with a rifle isn't really doing TAK any good.
     
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Small nitpick here, I would like to see more Mirage teams, but having a "generic" version doesn't fit with the background of them all being exceptional and unique individuals.

    Also remember we're getting a USARF update when Bill drops with ITS11.
     
  8. Vabap

    Vabap Member

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    For TAK and a part of Vanilla:

    Redo Voronin, his cost and his size for what he offers is really bad except LI format lists.

    Kazak Doctor should count for a Line Kazak for fireteam purposes.

    Redo the muls, too order intensive for what they offer.

    Camo engineer or doctor unit is needed. All camo specialists are either operatives or forward observers, two skills that except buttonpushing have no other effect!

    Redo Spetsnaz Sniper, too expensive in contrast with the Scout Sniper for 1 more camo tocken in exchange of no AP, doublepaying shock, worse positioning options and no specialist option(usually the fo is better than the sniper for scouts since he is cheaper in points and swc, and the guns are almost similar due to the positioning options)

    Redo the Forward Observer skill, it seems to be barely better than the specialist operative which is barely better than none.

    New Spetsnaz Specialist!

    A TAG might be a suit for an antipode or a dogface! That would be unique!

    Any datatracker type of ruling should not exclude a trooper in camomarker status, right now he can be with odd, high arm and multiple wounds (many other factions do it) but for ariadna he must be a one wound, 4 arm max, mimetism sometimes, no TAG trooper excluding many interesting options!

    Free Agent options, for a faction that by design needs list with many orders it will give a tactical touch of a proper trained army and not some rebels or mercenaries.

    Counterintelligence options for the exact same reasons as above.

    Limited Camo for the Line Kazaks, the only line troop choice of the faction that doesnt have it.

    A skill unique only for Ariadna, since there is no access to high tech options. Can be something like allowing two lieutenants, or the lieutenant in reserve, or linking camo tockens for fireteams, or reinforcements (don't know how but it would rock! Maybe the troops that are waiting to deploy do contibute their order in the pool even if they are in reserve).
     
  9. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Few things I disagree with:

    SO is indeed only a specialist, but FO also packs Flash Pulse ARO, and can help Traktor Muls with not being so order-intensive. Camo doc/engineer would be a very strong addition to an already very strong sectorial.

    FO is rarely used, but it doesn't mean it's useless. Especially since we do have some indirect fire options.

    Spetznaz are already top of the line combat unit, and almost an autoinclude. Giving them specialists would erase that "almost" part.

    It'd also move the faction into w40k territory. This is a serious military sectorial, it's enough that we have werevolves, we don't need armored ones :P

    These two would only help removing weak points from faction that already has very few of them. Ariadna does high order count lists very well. Reinforcing this would make it too strong.

    They also doesn't need it. Metros and Volunteers are more accustomed with assymetric warfare, Line Kazaks are regular army.

    We have no hi tech but we do have a lot of other things, to the extent no other faction has. Ariadna is already very strong and competetive faction. What would be the point of making it stronger?
     
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  10. FreezeZ

    FreezeZ Active Member

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    I don't think any one will say that Ariadna is weak and needs huge buffs. But it needs some other way of playing than camo, more come and way more camo. If idea of low-tech is that we can't get anything interesting, then it just bad for us. While giving specialist profile to our best unit is too much but changing FO so we can use our so called artillery is decent way of providing Ariadna with some new options.

    Personaly I would love to see more exclusive weapons and equipment.
     
  11. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    Make a lot of the camo limited camo to open up design space, buff the non-veteran kazak HI (especially Ratnik and Blackjack).

    A reworked CC could certainly help depending on the exact form it takes.

    A way to interact with the hacking game that I severely hope will become more a part of the game than something that begins and ends with the KHD.
     
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  12. PappaChu

    PappaChu Member

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    Personally, I'd like the Blackjack and Ratnik to be reclassified as TAGs, stat lines adjusted accordingly. They already look the part, and lore wise they're pseudo TAGs anyway as far as my understanding goes. If N4 progresses the fluff a few years, it would easily make sense to have Ariadna move into having TAG options while maintaining a low tech feel

    Plus, it's pretty lame to have official ITS missions that an entire faction can't compete in without losing several points right off the bat

    Otherwise, Traktor Muls could take a look over, especially the TAK ones, they're neat if you are playing CHA and spamming FO for remote firing, but otherwise feel kinda useless, which is too bad.
    The 112 being linkable over the Kazak doctor doesn't much make sense to me, swapping the two would be an easy fix to let her see some extra play.

    CHA is a super fun army to play, but sometimes feels a bit samey when it comes to list building, here's a bulleted list since they're the ones i've had the most experience playing:
    • Wallace is such a good lt option that you near always want to bring him, but half the time he's got to hang out and hide since people will be gunning for him so hard. Adding a chain of command option on someone would do a lot to make Wallace more fun and let him get in on the action
    • Mormaers are awesome, but never get taken. They're super expensive for a one wound model, and the AP HMG Grey link almost always becomes the preferable HMG option because of it. I like the idea of giving him Full Auto L1 or L2 to make him a bit more interesting to take, but some other skill adjustments could do the trick as well
    • More link diversity. We got some of the first mixed links, with Wallace effectively being a wildcard and Greys having a few fireteam options to pop in with volunteers or a Mormaer link, but unfortunately it still results in your options being fairly static. Sure there are other core link possibilities out there, but none feel as reliably worth taking as the AP HMG Grey + four Volunteers link. I love it, but some additional options would be nice and go a long way in making CHA feel like it has the same swath of possibilities as the newer sectorials like TAK
    • This one isn't necessarily a huge thing, but would be nice to give forward observer options to a few additional units other than SAS and Scots Guard. They seem to be your go to specialist option (outside of a volunteer with a medkit or a 112 / dozer, should you take them), and having even one additional unit with FO would go a long way in changing how CHA lists are made (and let me start using SAS for something other than button pushing / flash pulse surprises)
    • Limited insertion CHA is really really hard to pull off. I'm not sure with how to change this one, but an adjustment to make the army a tad less spammy would be interesting and let us able to compete a bit more in small order games

    USAriadna is getting tweaked soon by the sounds of it, and I haven't played them, so no comments there
     
  13. Vabap

    Vabap Member

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    Right now we have no special things that others cannot have other than the antipodes & wolves. And last time i checked they are not the gamechanging factor... As for ariadnan camo, pretty much every army can do it nowadays, some sectorials might not but the vanilla can. So where is the uniqueness? And the lists with many orders are something that many many more can do again, sometimes better than us...
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Anyone who's faced an experienced Antipodes player can tell you they're a game changer, those things are amazing!

    You want unique? 10 Camo markers in the midfield for 80 points, two of which are mines, three of which have DTWs. Add a Spetsnaz to that for 12 markers, one of which is a top tier active piece that your opponent has no real hope of identifying and taking out before it's first attack. Uniqueness is factions is about capabilities, not special rules, and even then Ariadna has several like Veteran 2, AD: X, Antipode, T2 ammo, Ojotnik, and several that are very rare like Ambush Camouflage and Transmutation.
     
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  15. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    There are very few faction-unique things in Infinity. Posthumans in Aleph, Shasvastii/Morat skills, Mnemonica and Sepsitor in CA, Tohaa Symbiont Armor. Most of the tools are available for all, especially where human factions are concerned. It's the exact combinations, their quality and quantity that makes the factions stand out, not unique skills. And I'd really like for CB to keep it that way.

    The amount of quality camo we can field is unique. Shasvastii might have the edge in quality, but can't reach the same field saturation as Ariadna can. Other factions can do hordes as well, but none of them can do it in so many ways as Ariadna can. We're the main user of Antipodes and Dog Soldiers, as well as T2 ammo. AP is commonplace, helping to counter enemy elites. In general Ariadna's "thing" is using basic tools in a way that substitutes the hi tech other factions rely upon.
     
  16. Captain Nevercrit

    Captain Nevercrit Well-Known Member

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    +1 for remotes being a little more effective. Modern drones have Molotok style guns which would be cool to see. Also maybe a Engineer/drone sync team for bomb/mine disposal (I watch a lot of the military comedy Blue stone 42. Its required viewing!).

    I would like to see a hydraulic TAG but the Blackjack and Ratnik are already TAG like without the draw backs. An armoured Dog-Warrior would be impossible fluff wise, a human carrying Dog-face* armour around all day until he gets shot. I feel a Camaronian in armour would make more sense.

    Overall I find Ariadna is in a great place now but i speak mainly as a TAK player. I play a few other factions (Aleph, Combined, JSA) but am always drawn back to Ariadna to get the job done. We have access to very skilled troops for very few points and having multiple hard hitting troops is very forgiving. Compared to other factions who have all the gear but no idea!

    *I apologise for my racist slur. Dog lives matter.
     
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  17. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    I'd like to see some of the camo options swapped out for decoy as that's a thing now and it wasn't when ariadna where designed.
    Muls are meh outside of some FO spam lists. I'd like to see a twin molotok loadout available to give that wardriver something to do.
    I'd like us to have some better non-merc access to the hacking game. Not brilliant of course, but something.
    Even if defensive hackers just got actually useful, that'd be great.
    Ratnik and blackjack reclassified as tags would be great too. Lets us actually compete in those missions that need them for scoring
     
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  18. McKaptain

    McKaptain Well-Known Member

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    For MRRF: It would be neat if sapper allowed the model to start the game in suppression.
     
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  19. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    My biggest wish is that Ariadna gets a lo-tech TAG. Either by bumping up Ratnik and Black Jack and/or create a cool new one. Every faction should have a TAG (On that account, give one to Steel Phalanx as well).
     
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  20. FreezeZ

    FreezeZ Active Member

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    How do you imagine Ariadnan TAG?

    I wast hinking about something with loads of armor, 2 str than another one after Lo-tech, manned. For weapons maybe true autocannon. Low burst (2), high dmg. At least one profile with something different and only for out TAG.
     
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