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Ariadna in N4

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by psychoticstorm, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Yeah, this is some bullshit. The only good thing is the LT not costing 1SWC anymore.
     
  2. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Because sometimes you want to protect your DZ against armored units. And I expect seeing more TAG and HI links assault in N4. Until now they were able to shrug off mines. There's also that minor thing of Spetznaz losing some value due to armored units being able to withstand HMG fire more effectively. I know that complaining that the sky is about to fall is a time-honored Infinity tradition, but maybe let's wait and see the whole picture before passing down judgement?

    Also, you can see changes in stats and skills, but you can't see how costs of those stats and skills change in the new edition.

    What's bugging me more is the Tankhunter model policy.
     
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  3. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    Cool
    But there is massive difference between a camo unit starting in deployment zone and FD/Infiltration ones
    This is why blanketly raising price on camo package might result in disrepancy - sure, it would hit Zeroes and Libertos and Foxtrots who are dirt cheap but it hurts less than stellar units like Tankhunter way more.

    Gonna laugh hard when, say, Achilles will get price cut "in an effort to make more elite units see table play"

    A guaranteed hit from sacrificial chain rifle of Irmandinho is a way more effective anti-TAG weapon than 38pts Tankhunter HMG dying in ARO to Sphinx's flamers just to place a mine in hopes that it will get WHOLE 1 STR off him. At least some Scouts have E-Maulers - actually reasonable deployable weapon against high ARM, multi-wound units.

    And there is a proper AP HMG in Ariadna and TAK already in Vet Kazak
     
  4. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    Also, wtf happened to T2 rifles? We lose 2 Wounds dealt at once, we lose Antimateriel AND we get more expensive?

    In return we get what... AP!?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Being universal doesn't mean that it's free. See the Wildcats, who went up more than the amount of gear they gained.

    Again, AP Mines do not cost 4pt.

    Tankhunters have never had T2 Rifles.
     
  6. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    My bad, thought this was a recent swap to "AP" on a weapon? Maybe I confused it with another renaming with AP? Was it the mines?
     
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  7. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    Cool, again: has Mk5 ever paid any points for 4-4 move value? Do Yadu pay for it?
    Awesome that USARF Grunts would go up in points then, great job, sounds like a solution for fitting them in tac window, cool.
     
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  8. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Frontoviks, Vets, and Vassily have T2 Rifles, no idea what happens to them in N4, but I imagine they'll stay.

    I'm having a hard time computing sacrificial chain rifle as a way more effective anti-TAG weapon. And laying mines down under fire isn't the go-to tactic, it's when the situation goes fubar and you have no other useful choices. The proper tactic would be to lay mines before enemy units get close.

    Again: we don't know the price tags on other troops. We don't know how badly we'll need that AP (and while VetKazak is a perfectly good choice, it's also much more expensive, at least for now. And doesn't use Camo, which makes it an obvious, visible threat).
     
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  9. fatherboxx

    fatherboxx Mission control, I'm coming home.

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    The proper tactic would be taking E-mauler Scout Minelayer - not hoping to survive into turn 2 and then waste orders placing obvious mines that at best would get off a single wound from a big target.
     
  10. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I agree that Scout with E/Mauler would be my first choice, but 1) I still like having this option on Tankhunter, even if just a backup. It's more likely I'll use these mines than D-charges; and 2) sometimes that one point of damage is all you need. Your target might've taken some damage on its way in. Your opponent might become more careful after taking additional hit from such a mine. Hell, we don't know yet if mines will work exactly the same in N4, for all we know CB might've decided they were too easy to dodge, and change their penalty to -6.

    And regarding cost increase: We might be paying for good ARM value, now more useful than in N3. other units will get recosted as well, we now exactly nothing how the full costing structure will look, and how cheap/expensive TH will be when compared to other choices. For now I can see use for each and every one of their loadouts.
     
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  11. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    So the Mines are AP right, that's the ammo type now. And mines will never cost 4 point dude, come on, think about it, no one would ever take them again. They cost 1 point same as before, what's getting more expensive is the camo marker state and maybe a 1 pt tax on efficient combos with the marker state...

    But for the complaints about any 1 wound troop being more expensive. Everyone has to remember. The tankhunter just got faster and has decent ARM to shrug off crits. Put the ML in a corner. Turn 1: place a mine, recamo. Turn 2 move up the table a little along a board edge, place a mine, re camo. I imagine itd be reasonable to spend 7-8 orders a game on a tank hunter in this fashion. Not mandatory, but if hes still alive and its tactically sound at the moment... hes easily a -9 target starting the game if placed right...
     
    #311 wuji, Sep 10, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  12. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    But why would you use a Tankhunter for this, rather than another, cheaper unit that gets to deploy in a better position? 7-8 Orders for a role that could be be filled by a cheaper Strelok, Foxtrot, Chasseur, etc. doesn't make sense to me. Those units could even start with a mine on the table, and save you the order expenditure, while the long-range ARO unit gets to stay concealed as an unknown threat.
     
    #312 barakiel, Sep 10, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2020
  13. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    You're totally right about those units starting in a better position and with a mine already on the table. But you are forgetting I did say if it's tactically sound. Generally people pump orders into a few troops each turn and that wasnt the role for a tank hunter. It still isnt. The role of the Tank Hunter is still the same, just able to be repositioned a little more each game now.

    Afterall arent we understanding the cost increase is in recognition of the camo marker state, not because of the movement or mines.
     
  14. SpectralOwl

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    If those units get Shock Mines or even just Mines, there's a niche for the Tankhunter. It's not an amazing niche thanks to their Sectorial and Ariadna as a whole being flooded with really good AP options, but it's there if you want it- especially for the AP Rifle/ADHL version, which should take down TAGs and fat HI with frightening speed. It's definitely an emergency bit of gear on the SWC versions, but throwing a mine down in front of a rampaging Rambo can still be worth it once in a while. I'd certainly take new Tankhunters, but this is because I hate links- Wildcard Vet Kazak is better for active, Frontovik defensive. Another "meh" unit in my opinion.
     
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  15. Drunkergnom

    Drunkergnom Well-Known Member

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    7-8 orders? On this? What happened to the rest of the squad? Also, hoping of survival when having 1 wound is bad idea.
     
  16. wuji

    wuji Well-Known Member

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    Lol, dude, it's like the max orders youd spend on him through the whole game scenario, I clearly said that. I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt here for the Tank Hunter but I mean, I ready did say it's role was not changing...
     
  17. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly because right now it's exactly in the middle, so this can help to change that I guess.
    Just joking, but yeah ariadna factions in N3 are not in the top at all. Stats don't support that affirmation.
     
  18. FreezeZ

    FreezeZ Well-Known Member

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    I propably shouldn't do that but I cant stop looking at Sombra profiles and comparing it to Tankhunters. And it is not going well for Tankhunters. They feel overcosted.
     
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  19. SpectralOwl

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    Just stop looking at Sombras altogether. Down that way lies sadness, no matter which faction you play.
     
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  20. FreezeZ

    FreezeZ Well-Known Member

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    You are propably right. It will be good for my mental health.
     
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