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Discussion in 'Spiral Corps' started by meikyoushisui, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Hey everyone, now that N4 has been out a while, I'm looking for some feedback. After looking at what people are actually taking and playing, I'm thinking of making the following changes:

    • Igao and Diplomatic Delegate pushed up to Tier 2
    • Kauuri box and Helot box pushed down to a new tier between the current Tier 2 and Tier 3, joined by the Kriigel blister
    • Anaconda added alongside current Tier 3 (current Tier 4?)
    • Everything else pushed down a Tier to fit the new Tier.
    Opinions? The addition of Mirrorball to the Igao has made it indispensable, but Helots have dropped from 2-3 per list to 0-1 in most cases. Kauuri seem to have niche application in the beefy boye triads with their B3 paramedic rolls, but not as much outside of that.
     
    infyrana likes this.
  2. Stripless

    Stripless New Member

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    Great Write up! I think you should add some 150/200/300 pts list as an example what to get and what to expect from Spiral.
     
  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Just as an aside, I'd be keen to hear more about your thoughts on this one.
     
  4. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I apologize for my comment being long-winded, but I feel like just explaining the value I see in the Igao isn't going to make as much sense without explaining some underlying assumptions in how I play Spiral Corps.

    My general approach is two triads (a Tricore Triad and an Auxiliar Triad) and an Impersonator in Combat Group 1, and a Reex Special Triad (usually with my Lieutenant) and a Clipso FO in Combat Group 2. I'm not completely dedicated to the skeleton, but I've found it's the best way to make sure I can leverage the Tricore both with the MSV2 Sniper and with the Draal AP MMR.

    This leaves me about 100 points and 5 slots for a second Impersonator, an additional triadable piece in G1, the Diplomatic Delegate, Helots if I want them, the Igao, a Kauuri, and anything unusual that the mission demands (Aelis, Kumotail, Kosuil, Monstrucker).

    If I opt for an Igao, it usually ends up in Group 1, because that way I have Mirrorball access in both Combat Groups. Of course, that all flexes a lot depending on the mission, but that's a general outline of how I'm approaching lists for most missions.

    So for my general approach, the Igao is giving me new options or redundancy in how I can approach three big problems.

    1) How can I deal with powerful MSV2 AROs on relatively open tables?

    This is probably the biggest reason I feel like the Igao is in such a better place now. Being able to start a Mirrorball halfway up the table or putting the template 40 inches up the table on your second order is such a huge benefit for dealing with the Atalantas, Kamaus, and even those buffed MSV1 AROs (especially the doubly-buffed ones like Bolts and Grenzers). Tiny aside, I have already expressed my worry about the direction the game is moving in terms of firepower (though I do have a healthy sense of skepticism for how big the changes will be) but I can't help but feel I might be a bit hasty in my decision to jump to Eclipse as a one-size-fits-all for the solution.

    We do have two other Troopers that I feel like can solve these problems:
    The Kiuutan/Jaan/Greif can usually get on top of these pieces (and frequently in more efficient ways), or at least take away their Fireteam bonuses by picking off weak links.
    The Kriigel can block LoF with its own Mirrorball, but the Kriigel can usually only cover one lane from a given ARO piece at a time.

    So the Igao finds a nice middle ground between these pieces -- it can still close distances if it has to, but it starts further up the table where you can pinpoint an ARO piece and basically remove it from the game for a turn. Tiny aside, I wonder if feeling this way comes at least somewhat from originally being a pre-Uprising JSA player, where pinpointing smoke on specific ARO pieces was one of the easiest ways to make sure I could leave my DZ.

    2) How can I deal with difficult to crack targets?

    It's really rare that I am carrying around any reliable K1. The Reex is just too unreliable to me at BS11 (I would love Tricore to be an option in that Triad!), the Kosuil is weird, and I need an overwhelmingly strong reason to consider Aelis just beyond K1. Our other options to deal with these targets are:
    Draal AP Marksman Rifle is the really obvious choice.
    Kiuutan with E/M Mines is viable-ish but if you're close enough to be relying on an SMG and mine tricks for more than one attempt, you're close enough to get Heavy Flamethrowered.

    The DAM buff to Igao makes them a really viable choice for this, IMO. On average, they'll be forcing about two DAM15 saves per order, which is give or take going to make them about as efficient as an HMG, which matters a lot given Spiral Corp's poor access to that type of firepower. There's a larger initial investment to get your Igao to the thing you need it to kill, but once it is there, you don't have to worry nearly as much about DTWs or the like.

    There's also the niche benefit in the Igao in that you can throw out a Mirrorball while you're already in a Mirrorball when making your approach. (Admission, I haven't had a chance to try this yet.) With enough orders, there isn't almost anything that an Igao won't get to eventually.

    3) How does Spiral Corps take objectives?

    I know this probably goes without saying, but I think the playerbase sometimes has a tendency to gloss over how powerful Eclipse ammunition is for taking objectives without needing to actually deal with the things covering them. A Clipso in a Mirrorball pushing the button on order 2-3 is relatively speaking one of the safest troopers that could be on a table, because the only potential threat to them is a mine / jammer. This is again, something a Kriigel can do, but an Igao can start in a position ready to do it.

    So I guess those are the major areas where I see the Igao looking up a lot. With regards to the "should I buy this" tier placement, I think it also has a lot to do with how I feel the value of Helots and Kauuri has dropped with the 15 troop limit / nerfs.
     
  5. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    meikyoushisui likes this.
  6. Goorie

    Goorie Active Member

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    meikyoushisui likes this.
  7. Spellbreaker90

    Spellbreaker90 Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys, I have the starter SC army box and I have made just 1 game in N4 and more in N3.
    What I found hard with SC is surving going second. The triad with Taagma Sniper is costly in SWC and usually is not so hard for the opponent to overcome it. Helot seems to have gone down in utility. We have very few minelayers to stop enemy advance.
    I found myself relying on Impersonator a lot more than in N3 when I theorycraft a list.

    am I wrong ?
     
    #27 Spellbreaker90, Dec 27, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
    deakolt likes this.
  8. Soul Hunter

    Soul Hunter New Member

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    In my opinion that's a problem many armies have in N4 because the game has become deadlier in the new edition and anything but the toughest models will usually die if put on ARO duty.
    Spiral has some good/mediocre ways to handle this problem in my experience:

    -Single Helots are still good because they are expendable units (just like daylami but worse). Just not as OP or spamable as before.
    -A Well placed Draal or Greif put into Suppressive fire via a command token. A suppressing Draal is really hard to deal with, or one that is in a tri-core triad but loosing him would be quite a disaster, while the Greif is very cheap and still not that easy to overcome in SF.
    -The humble Clipsos either with a Boarding Shotgun/Sniper Rifle hitting out of hidden Deployment or as simple Minelayer. (Shame that they are AVA 2 only)


    Edit: Armand or a Brawler Core Link with HRL and MSV Sniper could be ok too, but I have not played those units yet.

    Edit Number 2: I actually meant that the Draal is either linked or in suppressive fire but somehow just wrote it wrong sorry.
     
    #28 Soul Hunter, Dec 27, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
    deakolt likes this.
  9. infyrana

    infyrana Well-Known Member

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    @meikyoushisui Has your original post had many changes since last edited? I might start looking into Spiral Corps for later this year and thought of making some early savings to purchase the following - Spiral Corps Army box, Neema and the Hatail spec ops for Kaeltar CoC proxy, then maybe follow it up with some choices from - Igao, Greif, Kriigel, Kosuil and Taagma blisters - any thoughts please?
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  10. Soul Hunter

    Soul Hunter New Member

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    Your purchase list looks totally fine to me. The only thing you should really consider are some Chaksa Auxiliars or at least some models that you can use as proxies for them. I don't think you will need the Kosuil very often in Spiral but hey if you like the model go for it.
     
    #30 Soul Hunter, Jan 5, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
    infyrana likes this.
  11. Murrdox

    Murrdox New Member

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    This a great thread and SUPER helpful. I picked up the Spiral Corps box last year, but I did not get a chance to play much Infinity AT ALL in 2020. My friends and I just had our first game of N4 last week, where I played what will hopefully be my last game with my much-loved Yu Jing for a awhile. I'm really in love with the idea of Spiral Corps but I am VERY intimidated at getting into them. None of my friends play Tohaa so I've never seen them on the battlefield. The models are incredible though, and I'm looking forward to painting something that is not orange combat armor.

    So far what I have purchased:
    Spiral Corps box set
    Rasail Boarding Team
    Kerail Preceptors
    Clipsos - Sniper Rifle
    Taagma Schemer - Sniper Rifle

    I'm looking at what I should be adding... so far I think my first priorities are the Helots box set and the Kaeltar Specialists? I'm also thinking about Neema Saatar, but I might just proxy her. Having never played Tohaa, or seen them played, and the fact that we have so few opportunities to get together to play Infinity these days makes for hard decisions! It's hard to know what units are "good". I've got most of the models I own assembled, but I know I need a few more things to make a really good army list.
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  12. melkiach

    melkiach PheroBoosted

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    @Murrdox Your first priorities are completely correct!

    also pick an eye to the Igao, good profile, awesome miniature ;)
     
  13. Oni

    Oni Well-Known Member

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    The list of stuff you got looks good.
    Neema Sataar ist good to, but before Helots i would rather buy the Kaauri box. But that is only my personal preference.

    Further stuff that could be interesting would be the Chacksa box. Together with the Kaauri they are kind of the Spiral Cheerleaders and good Dropzone defenders.

    +1 for the Igao, model and rulewise very good.

    Also consider the Kriigel, really nice model and good rules. Unfortunately not as strong as it used to be, as the phero booster wont get any boni from Triads anymore.
     
  14. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    @infyrana That looks fine to me! My thoughts haven't changed significantly since I wrote this except as mentioned above in November.
     
    infyrana likes this.