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Are fireteam restrictions adding value

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by spears, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Edit: I misread this comment
     
    #61 meikyoushisui, Apr 27, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  2. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    AHAHAHaahhahahahhahahahahahhaha.
     
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  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    This kind of low effort comment does not belong here.

    Could you please elaborate on what you find so funny?
     
  4. Superfluid

    Superfluid Welcome to Svalarheima

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    Yeah, my bad. I was more meaning thematically rather than true to classifications :)
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Read SuperFluid's post again. He suggests adding Core to all basic light infantry for vanilla. As in, vanilla gets access to what we commonly refer to "defensive Core fireteams".
     
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  6. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Fire team bonuses are certainly not underpowered now.
     
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  7. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I seem to have misread your post.

    In this case, my reaction would be to laugh. Vanilla armies absolutely do not need buffs. For half the armies in the game it's outperforming sectorials, and the vanillas that are doing poorly would not really be helped by it.
     
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  8. micawber

    micawber Junkship Jockey

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    I do think that fireteam restrictions add value, yes. Restrictions used correctly breed creativity and in case of sectorials it's also a question of theme with the sectorials all having a rather distinct theme compared to the soup-ish nature of vanilla factions.

    Fireteam restriction also kinda make sense for me from a fluff perspective. You'd expect those small spec ops teams (which Infinity "armies" effectively are) to be structured around a "core" team with smaller teams of specialists (haris and duo) supporting them.

    From a pure gameplay perspective they're going a little bit overboard with the mixing and matching of some fireteams. Don't get me wrong - I love the fact that fireteams are not exclusively comprised of one troop type and done sparingly it gives some really cool options. On the other hand examples like the above no Zuyong "Zuyong" fireteam indicate to me that they are not quite there yet with balancing those two extremes.

    I'd guess most of us would agree with the general direction they're taking with fireteams but there are still a few issues they should adress. All those I'd argue can be fixed with better wording of a few rules and maybe a bit more moderation on the part of CB.
     
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  9. Superfluid

    Superfluid Welcome to Svalarheima

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    What's going to be difficult is removing those fireteams now they are in, loss aversion is a bitch.
     
  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    The mixing does create diversity when used correctly though. Look at an army like Bakunin compared to TAK. Bakunin really only has two cores that people actually take (Moderator and Riot Grrl) and both of them have very predictable composition. The same was true of pre-rework JSA where 90% of lists used Keisotsu links. I never can predict what kind of link I'll be playing against in TAK (if there's even a link at all.)
     
  11. micawber

    micawber Junkship Jockey

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    I fully agree. Maybe I wasn't clear enough but I'm all for mixed links. My threshold is crossed when you can field a "troop x" link without a single "troop x" profile in it. Other possible restrictions might include only one wildcard per link or something like "majority has to be the profiles profiding the link option".

    I play Bakunin myself when my grumpy Corregidorians are out for a drink or ten. I'd love to see Observance fireteams, maybe a Clockmaker wildcard, a Bran + Morloks link or a few moderator fireteam options. But be careful with making Sin-Eaters linkable or when dabbling with Riot Grrls. Thats the delicate balance I'm talking about that I'm sure CB is aware of but not always on top of.
     
  12. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    With Bakunin I honestly don't see what allowing all of the Reverend units to intermingle would really change, might as well allow it.
     
  13. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

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    Ah. No.

    I would rather see fire teams removed entirely from the game.

    Clearly they never will be, and I find myself discouraged as things have progressed since last year. There's my "low effort" reply.
     
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  14. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I have two questions. One, why?

    Two, what would you do to fix sectorials if you remove fireteams? Fireteams are the only reason most sectorials are competitive (with only 3ish armies where no-fireteam play would be considered viable at the higher level play) and sectorial-specific profiles are both hard to balance and annoying to vanilla players.
     
    #74 meikyoushisui, Apr 28, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  15. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    How do you know about this update? Do you have a link?
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Two weeks after, not two weeks before. Sorry, I thought that was clear in the context of discussing what factions were taken to a tournament that took place just after a load of factions had been released. :-(
     
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  17. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Will you elborate on this analogy more please? What are these "rock", "papers", and "siscors" you speak of?
     
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  18. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

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    It becomes very hit or miss, as sectorial players rely on their Fireteam - the rock - to win the day so its all up to the opponent to decide the game, choosing paper or scissors. A moderately smart player, knowing how to deal with a Fireteam will then go with the paper tactic and win.
     
  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That's the name of the children's hand-sign game in English. Rock breaks Scissors, Scissors cut Paper, and Paper covers Rock.

    The underlying accusation is that certain match-ups are unwinnable, and that's certainly not true in Infinity. But in 40k, for example, you defeat the opponent's long-range troops by engaging them in melee, and defeat his melee troops by engaging them at long range.
     
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  20. sackofowls

    sackofowls Member

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    Not OP, but...

    I'd either get rid of the sectorials all together. Or keep them, but their benefit is not fireteams, but getting to use units from other armies.
     
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