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[April], come she will...

Discussion in 'News' started by Solar, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The opportunist will drink the water, and my mother will ask who the hell do I think will wash it.
     
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  2. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    Heavyweight troopers can never cross a narrow gate, regardless of their silhouette. They can't enter an objective room in any way, therefore the value of the discount in points is proportional to the frequency of use of the narrow gate, which has been left out of the scenarios for ITS9, leaving it entirely up to the setup of the table. Certain aspects of the rules are always dependent on the table setup, and need to be included in the scenarios to ensure their use at a consistent frequency.
    And some smartass will point out that the glass is always full: half water, half air. That is unless you're in a vacuum in which case you need to look at your priorities and stop daydreaming about water...
     
  3. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Actually, no. Germany had absolutely no chance of winning the WWII, bar breaking the opponent's morale and political will to the point of them willing to agree to a peace settlement on conditions favoring the 3rd Reich.

    Once Soviet and US industry kicked in in full gear there was no possibility of Germany overproducing them, especially given the difference in access to natural resources. German tech edge is often overestimated; while it's true that they've made some groundbreaking research it was often funneled into impractical projects; rocket programs gave them V1/V2 flying bombs and rockets, which made good terror weapons, but were unable to effectively disrupt the British industry. Some of their tanks and tank hunters were best in class (especially Panther), StuG III was a very cost effective platform as well, but the Soviet were very close behind, overtaking Germans in many cases (Panther concept was substantially changed to incorporate Soviet solutions after Nazis encountered T-34). Heavier German tanks were mechanically unreliable (their weight put extreme stress on suspension and drivetrain systems), had problems on muddy Russian soil, and had very high fuel consumption. And let's be honest, when Germans have built around 6000 Panthers and 1300 Tiger I tanks, the Soviets have built 80000 of T-34's alone. And when used properly they were a match for German tanks, especially T-34-85. Additional point is the superiority of tactics. Western Front example - while a single Tiger was a deadly threat to Sherman crews, Allies quickly came up with tactics designed to counter that threat, with multiple tanks operating together to take down German armor (it's similar to the way US Airforce and Navy were designing new tactics to counter superior Zero fighters).
     
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  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Yes, but page 169 core rulebook:

    Please notice how the GATE markers relate to Silhouette value. Now consider how, going Prone, you go to S0... thus allowing any model that can to access, regardless of its base, cross any door (regardless of its wide!) marked with any kind of GATE marker; then, those who are Heavyweight cannot cross, as you say, those accesses (again, regardless of the wide they have in the model) marked as Narrow Gate.

    Since GATE markers is not used, and doors and other accesses currently used require the base of the model to be able to pass trough, as I said there are three options: to populate scenarios with GATE accesses (and the Narrow ones need to meaningfully impact the Heavyweight troops, aside from the Maghariba which cannot go prone so it's f*cked anyway) and further complicate the game, to remove Heavyweight and its discounts, or to change it so the discount it provides in points is meaningfull, like the suggested "can't go prone".

    Well, the USA got into the game thanks to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, and the Russians because of Germany attacking them.

    Please consider that, back in that time, declarations of war had to be issued, need to be "lawful" (whatever that was considered to be) and, more importantly, once a country surrendered, the winner got not only the land, but the army, resources, etc...
    So, if Germany had conquered Europe, then gear all that in place, and then attack Russia, instead of overstretching, the war would have lasted much more, or not, depending on who got the Atomic Bombs first... which was the game changer.
     
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  5. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    You aware it was "only" preemtive strike, as otherwise it would be Soviets who attacked WW2 Germany ?

    It's funny how everyone is speaking about Germany inhabitated by Nazis....
     
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  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I fail to see how "preemptive strike" is the same as "let's cross Russia in Winter until we reach Moscow!". Sure, Blitzkrieg is nice and good, but basic Sun Tzu boils down to: whatever you carry costs a lot more than what you can "pillage", make sure your army can self-sustain when advancing...

    As for the second line, I fail to see its relevancy (not being sarcastic here, I just, literally, don't get it).
     
  7. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    @xagroth I'm not quite sure what you are actually arguing here. If the door/hole/gap is 25-39mm and not marked or declared as a gate(there really is no need to mark them all if all the similarly sized doors are gates) then only a model that was heavyweight and S2 (or S1 I guess but that's even more ridiculous...) could pass through. Heavyweight specifically says that they cannot cross a narrow gate regardless of silhouette.

    The heavyweight rule interacts with gates. If you don't use gates then it cannot interact with them.
    Impetuous prevents use of partial cover, if people suddenly start playing on fully open boards would it be necessary to remove the discount or extra order?
     
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  8. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Considering the stakes involved nobody was all that concerned about rules and "lawfulness", aside from keeping appearances.

    The outcome of Battle of Britain meant that whatever happened in the mainland Europe UK would remain free until Germany could defeat the Soviet Union and shift attention westward. And it's debatable if Germans could win on the Eastern Front even without Allies opening a second one. You can't cheat logistics; the differences in manpower, industrial capacity and supply lines length were much more favorable to the Soviets. Operation Barbarossa was initially successful, because Soviets got caught with their pants down, unprepared for defence, while preparing for a strike of their own. Germans were able to destroy multiple armored units in transit, planes on forward airfields, and capture a lot of stockpiled supplies. After they've overextended, got bogged down in Stalingrad and on Moscow's outskirts... the advantage was firmly with the Soviets.

    Add to that the question of morale; Soviet propaganda, not to mention secret police, worked full time to ensure people were fully motivated to support the war effort - and it worked. What's more, on captured territories people were initially happy to see German troops, but they soon learned that Nazis were worse than Soviets. This meant that Germans would have to place a sizeable garrisons to keep the population in check, which would divert lots of resources from other theatres of operation.

    As for the US - even without Pearl Harbor they might've join the war eventually. Japanese strike only hastened that decision.

    edit: since you've quoted Sun Tzu you're clearly aware of the logistics issue. The point is - given the distances and technologies involved, Germans were unable to supply themselves without long and fragile supply lines. Question of supply got a bit more complicated since the times of the Mongols...

    edit2: also, NA2 are up :D
     
    #2428 Stiopa, Mar 22, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
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  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Precisely, my point was that German should have retreated and bid for time against the soviets, turning the scorched earth strategy they had used against them. They failed to adapt, but that was the end, anyway, of WW2.

    Anyway, we were talking about the Uprising, and I don't even remember when we got sidetracked XD.

    My point was that a Heavyweight troop, right now, suffers nothing for being so. And if we go Gates, only suffers from Narrow ones, as you say (something that the Maghariba would never be able to, wanyway, since it's unable to go Prone, thus cannot reduce its S to 0).

    Considering how central rooms were removed because of how hard it was for big tournaments to gather one per table, and not even then the gates were used (I think they were only used in Dire Foes scenarios, and some Paradiso ones), right now is a free discount.
     
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  10. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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  11. Sora9785

    Sora9785 Well-Known Member

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    Update on the army builder:
    -YJ lost JSA
    -Spec Ops reworked
    -JSA, Starco, Ikari at NAA
     
    #2431 Sora9785, Mar 22, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  12. Fire Broadside

    Fire Broadside The Red Comet

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    "Jap" is an ethnic slur in large parts of the word, please stop using it. If you feel typing out Japanese is too arduous, JSA works fine.
     
  13. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Not all.

    Yuriko got costs flipped, I think.
    TOHAA NEWS!!!! Tohaa specops is now a KHD!!
    Bipandra is now 0 SWC

    I noted no other changes
     
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  14. Sora9785

    Sora9785 Well-Known Member

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    Im sorry I dont knew that it was because in German we have another word for it.:sweat:
    JSA was not on my mind, I would have used that instead and I edited it

    Thanks @Fire Broadside for pointing that out
     
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  15. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    Isobel now has White Hacker Device
    Bipandra change light shotgun to nanopulser and loses 0.5 SWC and Specialist operative
     
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  16. Sora9785

    Sora9785 Well-Known Member

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    Corax Hasht got Shock Immunity and MOV 4-4 and I think she got 2 points reduced
     
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  17. Fire Broadside

    Fire Broadside The Red Comet

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    No worries. It's not universal, but still widespread enough (especially in the US) to really avoid it. Thanks for acknowledging it! :)

    Als
     
  18. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    On a side note YJ roster looks sad now...
     
  19. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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  20. Keyrott

    Keyrott Nomad Handyman

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    Sad reacts only
     
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