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[April], come she will...

Discussion in 'News' started by Solar, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    I think i have it figured out. Infinity players are actually all quantum physicists travelling at the speed of light.
    1. Events in the future are obeserved happening in the present. Check.
    2. By observing the events the physicists change the outcome. Check.
    3.They are simultanously hating on CB while being fanboy enough to spend hours here calling others fanboy. Schrodingers cat, check.
     
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  2. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    And again with the incessant whining and mewling like a cat. I’m sorry you’re such a child that you can’t manage to suck it up and grow up, but obviously someone changing the way you play with your toys is too much for you to overcome, the way you still go on. And yeah, perhaps CB screwed, but merely because they had the misfortune to believe folks who enjoy the game could act like actual adults, rather than spoilt toddlers acting like someone took away their chupete. And so what if I’m a fanboy? What, am I supposed to take the side of a company that makes a product that my friends and I enjoy, where all of us are excited to the tune of getting ready to spend several hundred euros this week, or a small clutch anonymous whiners from the forums, who do nothing but scream to the ether how they’ve been wronged? Sorry, meu filho, but your short sighted, infantile squealing loses every time in that calculus, and twice on Sunday.
     
  3. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    This logic could apply to so many of the things CB do. Like re sculpts, or when they change profiles. Or if the ITS will affect profiles.

    We know that IA is coming, its just uncertain when. You also follow on the "not knowing when" with "in a reasonable amount of time". Which is it mate? I think the reasonable amount of time is the subjective crux upon which much of the whinging is about.

    I can't actually fathom how they could have done this to "placate the masses" that wouldn't just be a total fucking bummer of "hey guys we've got this massive change coming that we're about to tease but heres a mechanical run down on profile changes so no one has a fit".

    Then the next 5 weeks until the actual release of JSA is a yawn fest as we know exactly whats coming.

    Sorry guys, hype works, I don't like it, you might not like it, but from a business point of view it works a lot better than telling the people what they want, because people don't actually know how to sell shit to themselves.
     
    DukeofEarl and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  4. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    "JSA is leaving YJ. YJ will get some stuff to help out with that in the next coming months." Done again. You don't need to lay it all out. It's not an all or nothing thing. Middle ground it and you'll placate a good majority (there will always be dissenters no matter what). Let's you double up the hype as well. New YJ stuff! New JSA stuff! YAYYYY!

    I don't know when it's coming but I'd like to know if something is coming in a reasonable amount of time. Let's say sometime in the next 3 to 4 months. So before Gencon.
     
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  5. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    Oh I beg you pardon.
    Wasn't aware those five to ten guys screaming and yelling like entitled manchildren were supposed to be an angry mob.
    Would have expected some more torches for that... and like at least a dozen people to get the mob feeling going and stuff.

    You mean if they even had Cubes, didn't get Sepsitored, could afford ressurrection and the Cube got recovered/wasn't damaged in the first place.
    As ex military you should be aware a lot of people don't come back from the trip as the same person and that is without waking up after getting to watch their own guts spill.
    Hope you enjoyed your tour and came home alright. But I have to voice some doubts you have done anything remotely similar to capturing for torture, killing for oppinions or sending Wu Ming and Kuang Shi to their deaths on a battlefield.

    I do hope you didn't have the misfortune to be in a position where you ended up killing someone from less than 60 feet (or any range, really). Sleeping next to a missile tube strikes me as a little less extreme, especially without pushing the button or being directly responsible for that.

    For some murder and genocide is a rush. For some a neverending nightmare they can't escape for the rest of their lives. For most a mixture of both, which only adds to the feeling of guilt.
    So the mind usually searches for a way out, either by blaming it on only acting upon orders or by dehumanizing the ones killed into faceless evil who got it coming.
    That Crane guy sure looks convinced to me he is doing country and people a favour. In his mind his cause is righteous. A waste of human lifes, but ultimately necessary for the greater good.
    I have no doubt those kind of people do exist today, but should be somewhat rare.
    WW2 however had them in droves. What is perceived as atrocities, might just look like a job to the one doing it. Doesn't change the fact they're still atrocities, but you'd have a hell of a time convincing the guy doing it of that if he keeps getting constant affirmation through propaganda and his chain of command.
    You should be well aware soldiers build a very clear wall in between themselves and the "civilians". Something close to an exclusive club normal humans neither have access to nor could understand.
    Been there done that, younger and dumber than today, but I most certainly still remember the mentality from back then.
    It's a tough task to fix that from the outside and I'd expect the ISS to run a tight ship on internal affairs as well as morale. Brainwashing techniques included.

    So if you'll excuse me, I'm going to make this abundantly clear again.
    We do NOT have any insight what that Crane Agent was thinking.
    Even if we completely disregard that it's fiction to begin with and probably should not expect it to be "realistic" when put in a early 21st century western setting for context impossible to find.
     
    #2225 Teslarod, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    The thing is, you'd claim I was being hyperbolic as long as I thought there was a problem at all.

    No, it's not subjective. @A Mão Esquerda made the point that what CB had done *could not* be wrong because they have autocratic control over the game; I used an analogy to show that he was incorrect. I didn't show that CB was wrong by that analogy... I just showed that it's worth discussing.

    We have no reason to think otherwise. If CB had information to make people feel better about the situation... they'd likely give it.
     
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  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Well, it's in part of Paradiso that the militaries used to offer full Resurrection insurance, you'd get shot and the government paid for your Resurrection, and it wasn't part of the regular lottery. You were back up more or less as soon as they made a new body to stick you into.

    The life insurance payout for someone who was Really Dead was basically enough to immediately fund a resurrection of any other individual, and then some.

    With all the Voodootech out there in the EI War causing True Death, the militaries of the Sphere were nearly bankrupted until they could re-negotiate the True Death payouts.

    And yeah, my buddy in the Army isn't quite the same person who went out.


    Aside from a busted back (I can still walk, but I hurt 24/7), I'm healthy enough. Still have some 'fun' training-induced things, but not too much.


    Well, they do (many) psych screening on us before we even get to the subs. One of the things I'm pretty sure the screeners look for is enough sociopathy to be able to pull the trigger, knowing that doing so means everyone we have ever known or loved is dead or wishes they were. All of us on the boats are a bit ... odd.

    Edited to add:

    But there was this one day in October 2001 (yes, a little over a month after that horrible day in September), where I was pretty sure I was going to have to shoot a boatload of idjit civilians dead because they were closing on my surfaced sub at ~35knots. I was standing Force Protection Watch in the Bridge (on top of the sail, the fin on top of the boat), I saw them come around the corner of an island and then line up on us. Called away the new contact, they must have been a good 8 miles out when I first saw them. Kept my scan up, looking for closer contacts. Every time my big binoculars swept past them, they were still on a constant-bearing-decreasing-range aka collision course, pointed straight at us. We were heading slightly to their right. The Torpedoman carrying the grenade launcher ended up walking forward of the sail, which isn't a safe place to be while my sub is underway, waves will wash all the way up to the sail (all the way over the bridge if the waves are awful). He was risking getting washed overboard if we caught a bad wave. I went from standing down in the bridge to sitting on top of the sail to standing on top of the sail as those damnfools kept getting closer and closer and closer. I told the Officer of the Deck that if I yelled "down!" he'd better be ducking below the top of the sail and covering his ears. I was using the periscope fairing as a rest to stabilize the rifle. 35 knots is 700 yards a minute, plus we were doing about another 10 knots towards them. ~800 yards a minute total closing speed. About 30 seconds after their *first* warning to change course, I was going to have to shoot them.

    For the crime of being too fucking stupid to live. You do NOT close with a US Navy warship at that speed now, and you sure as shit don't do it ~6 weeks after the Towers fell!

    Thankfully, about the time those idjits were ~5000 yards out, this Coastie boarding team in a Rigid-Hull Inflatable Boat with 3x 200hp outboards strapped to it's ass went screaming past my sub at probably 80 knots and had a nice long chat with them. The Coast Guards had been well aft of us, chasing away some other idiots.

    I owe those Coasties a beer or three for making it so I didn't have to shoot some people.

    But that was the closest I've ever been to shooting someone.



    I thing I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on that.
     
    #2227 Section9, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
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  8. devil.advocates

    devil.advocates Well-Known Member

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    They just suffered from "Post GW Emasculation Syndrome", because i saw similliar symptoms on some Warhammer players before.

    It was transmittable desease that was originated from a dank fishing village somewhere in Foruchannu Republic, so you better watch out and wash your hands immedially after contact!
     
  9. loki

    loki Active Member

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    That's fair enough, but you have to consider that companies like to mine data. It's a much easier form of information to interperate when they can pull a report that says 'Generic Yu Jing army lists created - X. Times Y units taken - Z'. That tells them a lot more than trawling internet forums and seeing the same dozen people talk about stuff they like to take.

    So when it comes to figuring out something like how often a unit is taken, and you have data you can search, you trust data, because data doesn't lie. It just is. Even if army lists aren't pulled from IA aren't representative of the whole community, the fact that it's used as the ITS standard means it's should give them enough of a cross section of the community to trust that it's a fairly representative sample size. There will always be outliers, however. It's up to the people pulling and analysing the data to determine is the sample size is representative enough that they want to go with it.

    CB obviously thinks it is.
     
  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @loki Or they're wrongly assuming that the vast number of vanilla Yu Jing lists made with a Ninja as their only JSA unit are the result of choice, and not simply model availability (said model being in Red Veil).
     
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  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Sorry, I forgot us mere plebs have no right to question the decisions of the glorious Iberian gods who create this game. Tell us, oh high priest, how we should supplicate them to gain their favor? Should I melt down my minis collection with a torch and buy it all again to placate them?
     
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  12. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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  13. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    I love how about 70% of the "anti Yu Jing" posts in this thread are just ad hominem attacks. Also, i love @Teslarod telling us all we don't know how having to kill affects your thought process, i have to suppose he is a serial killer as he obviously knows.
     
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  14. sarf

    sarf Well-Known Member

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    Sorry that I made you feel this way. I was so sick of seeing people tortured, maimed and killed at local news so people casually making jokes like "I`ll see you in our prison camp", "You`ll be Kuang Shi" with serious faces make me vomit. I really like fluff being a bit cartoonish, it`s more nicer this way.
     
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  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    Cool story bro, interesting move.

    Classic Ad Hominem, very effective to make your side of things clear.
    Not sure if it's more amusing you fell low enough for that level or that you seem to be completely unaware to the possible consequences if your shot in the dark hit bullseye there.

    I'd even call it bold if it wasn't so hillariously naive.
    You got some of it right though. Yes I can tell you with confidence not everyone is capable of hauling off people to Guantanamo Bay or whichever other blacksite would be comparable. Not even to mention applying interrogation techniques or turning serial killer.

    It's somewhat intriguing it seems like you mock that thought. If you have more insight on the matter feel free to elaborate your point of view.
     
    sarf likes this.
  16. The_Evergrey_One

    The_Evergrey_One Well-Known Member

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    Ah, ok. That one came out six months ago so I didn't consider it recent. Different perspectives on time I suppose. Still, I get that it would suck to have a miniature invalidated within that timeframe, thanks for the clarification.
     
  17. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The joke was not the log post per se, but pretending that blog post was what people was asking for. Or, in other words, the joke is pretending that blog post aimed at JSA fans/buyers with some small mention to YJ (explaining why Ninjas would remain in Vanilla) allays any of the concerns of the people who are seeing all this as a combination of "YJ has the Idiot Ball again", "Excuses to take models from that faction" and "not enough communication with a part of the the consumers" (since they seem to reach those who agree anyway with them fine enough, I believe that's called "preaching to the choir").

    An example would be a post about how they felt that the Keisotsu needed to be removed from Vanilla, same as the Tokusetsu, because of balancing reasons of what is to come; that the Aragoto were a niche style they want to modify for the future, and that they wanted to extend the Raiden's role, but that would make it a "must have" with the Kanren, so after adding all of this and more reasons a decision was reached to take JSA from YJ into the newly designed NA2, thus advancing the Storyline and making the JSA an independent, minor state.
    Adding to this that most of the publicity that has been provided about the Uprising has been made by JSA-sympathizers, so it's totally biased, and that YJ's is still to come and won't be "cheap"; plus that CB wants the players to use the Imperial Service sectorial as much as possible for now for a thematic feeling, while Invencible Army will be announced before the Interplanetario*, would soothe almost all of the worryings.

    * Disclaimer: I have no frigging idea of anything I just wrote on that paragraph, it is an example of the points I would have found useful, interesting, and really addressing the concerns of several clients on that blog post.

    You do realize all of use here are "manchildren" who like to play with toy soldiers, don't you? We are all also consumers, and companies who treat their customers differently need to really really favor those who spend a lot, or risk losing a lot of money... thus the need to have an ear for as many consumers as you can.

    Aragoto's fluff states they get free resurrection after joining the military, thus the Bosozoku join en masse because they can do what they love the most: high speed and violence, getting payed for it, and a free resleeve if they die at the line of duty...

    The point about resurrection is... less than coherently explained, and Macayana's dead further complicated the issue. In other words, it seems that either the Cube "rules" are not set, or are not evidently logical for us to see, up to an extent: Sepsitorized troops are not "truly dead" (there are still cold storage backups), but the military refrain from resleeving because they fear the security risk (a doppleganger that knows as much as you do up to a point, thinks like you, etc... and is utterly loyal to the enemy is a glaring hole in ID checks, for example, and also can guess your tactics and strategies if you are Command, but the enemy will use them as advisors instead of leaders). Macayana's death is glaringly strange because, while her current Cube can be fried by the Umbra's attack (we can assume there was some sort of exploit that was patched after some time), her cold storage copy should have not... "promoting her upstairs" after resleeving her would have solved the situation more neatly.

    While not stated on the game, the existence of the Sepsitor (and the Kuangshi, and Al-Djabel) is, for me, proof that it's possible to "edit" parts of somebody's mind. While the Sepsitor is "magic" in that it can switch loyalties instantly and without secondary effects (that we know of) on a "running mind", the Kuangshi and Al-Djabel give us enough data to assume the Human Sphere has technology to alter parts of a human mind, so the undesirable traits/memories could be softened to an extent, making therapy easier.

    A Crane agent, by fluff mentioned in this same thread as "2 steps under the Emperor" (that is, only the Emperor and the Hsien outrank him) is very unlikely to go for a long time without care, specially if that Crane agent is responsible for a highly volatile zone like the Japanese enclaves. Not to mention, it is an earned position if I'm not mistaken... so stupid people should not be at that rank (a "stupid" Hsien could be more believable, a single time).
    So, as everyone else, I do hope it was a rebel/Speculo making waves into storms, instead of a Crane holding an Idiot Ball rivaled only by Goku's "world-energy sphere"...
    Hey, maybe the JSA managed to extract all the Japanese potentia for Idiot Ball-holding, and focused that on the Crane... ¬¬U

    I would leave WW2 out of this, chain of command was the main culprit there, and I believe provisions for "lawful orders" were added to soldier's ethos after so many "I was following orders" conscience-discharge.
    You could go with slavery in the Roman Empire, conscription of levies during the Middle Ages, etc... to illustrate that morality is really dependent on culture and environment. I can, however, dispute this argument with a simple "logic is universal", and it doesn't take much to realize that giving motivation and ammunition that legitimates the enemy's actions is not the wisest course of action. Maximizing the enemy's faults (like the civilian bombing the Tatenokai does) would.

    All groups do that, human minds go for a "tribe". Soldiers are... extremely visible, in part because they are the focus of a lot of attention (a group that expends money like mad, when there is no need for it, carrying weapons... tends to do it. And few people understands that paying for an army only when there is a war is useless).

    We do know of his actions, and that actions speak volumes: he is either a dead man talking (because his life is forfeit after such a fumble, and will see all of his political capital expended into avoiding becoming a Kuangshi), a dead man (because his identity was stolen by the rebels or somebody trying to destabilize further YJ, preferably a Speculo Killer, since a Fiday would complicate things), or a fictional man (an unexisting Crane Agent made up by the rebels to sell the concept that YJ is "bad" -for all the stuff we pack there, bigotry, racism, etc...- to the Japanese).

    You see, all of those options make tons more of sense that having that crane alive and well, spewing party-approved expletives. And the Mass Graves word choice of words is VERY unfortunate from CB's part, because of their public reach.

    So they take any kind of list I regularly build as if I have the models and play that faction? Damn, they must think I have 100% of their line then XD.

    Data is data, the lies come to being when you interpret them... and there are tons of ways to do it. Believe me, while I don't directly work in Big Data and Business Intelligence, I'm the team that does it for a bank, so I have to develop skills and knowledge on that.

    I would think the main bulk of trusty information is the OTM and the lists submitted for tournaments, something I think all the big ones require you to do (since they provide you with the printed copies). The Army and its saved lists have data, but if they give it the same value as the tournament data, they have a problem (since they might be looking at lists never used, at thematic lists, at lists made to have a feel of what you might face later...).
     
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  18. Darkvortex87

    Darkvortex87 Combat jump kamikaze

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    this post need so much upvote!

    this sums perfectly what i thought when analyzing the situation.
    note: i only play corregidor and i am more than anything interested in the lore of the game, so no JSA or YJ sympatizer. i'm only interested in the lore and the logical reasoning behind the BG.
     
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  19. deep-green-x

    deep-green-x Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. Koni

    Koni BanHammer
    CB Staff

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    Please, stop of this bad behaviour and attacking other forum users in this topic. Just discuss is good manners. As I always say, think that your message could be offensive to the rest of users, even if it not was your intention. And if your intention is to offend, take a breath, re-read your post and be sure that your message is not offensive before click on "Reply".

    And what I'm saying is for EVERY forum user, Warcor, non-Warcor, Yu Jing player, PanO player or simply a new user who haven't decided yet what to play.

    Thank you for your collaboration.
     
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