I hope itl. Magahriba is worth cost/point the guijia isn't in my opinion. Ofc you can play and win with it but if mag is undercostet guijia is overcoseted
Maggie gets a discount because S8 and HeavyWeight (on a troop that cannot go prone... but yeah, it's a "free discount" nowadays). Consider that the 360º visor ups Maggie by 20pts or so! And that she can't be Lt, also (but has more engineer options).
The discount thing is just a way to make it more usefull for haqquis, still very for free. Consider the guijia gets cost extra for usless gigantic sword with CC 18. The 360 visor is other topic but well imagina guijia of 100 point with visior, still to overcosted as hell. I don't expect a 60 point tnks but come on 88 is too much when ytou have hac taos , Yan Huos and other thinks for half ( without consider the Su Jian)
With the exception of the 360 visor, in my opinion the base price of TAGs is too high while the special equipment and skills are in general fairly inexpensive (if you consider the service platform so to speak). Either the Guijia (and similar TAGs) needs a serious special equipment or the price remedied.
Problem is that ARM is payed like a premium stat, only Wounds/STR values are more expensive, and TAGs have the most ARM.
Guijia only pays 1 point for 2 CC and sword when compare to the Lizard. MG just gets a massive discount with S8 and Heavyweight. This is less of a case of YJ CC tax being crippling, but rather just "standard" TAGs being overcosted.
Am i the only one who thinks that Guijas are fine as is? And yes, i do use it and the O Yorai when we still had it. And i also use Yan Huo. They do different things. The armour, wounds and mobility of the Guija is something you can't get on a HI period. And I'd gladly pay the points for it when i need one.
We aren't saying Guijia is usless, it has his moments but cone on try to play it without kuang shis and you will see the overcost x)
I was like you until we lose kietosus TT and all my order pools where cuted. Without them to max i reached is 14 orders for killing missions/supplies with the tag. And supplies only beacuse the tag itself is specialist xD
That makes sense. I can't comment on serious balance topics, but as far as I understand my city's meta is fairly competitive (it helps having people who scored decently at previous Interplanetarios and other tournaments here) and general opinion on TAGs seem to be unfavorable unless they have something special you can't realistically get anywhere else (Sphinx and HGL Squalo come to mind) or are just not TAG-level of being expensive (other Onyx TAGs). Other than that, noone is keen to pay those points for just a brick with HMG, especially considering that for their premium price they may lose order efficiency (for a pool already hurting because of list building concerns) they gained from mobility and silhouette to lack of decent modifiers in shootouts (unless they are TO or something). And on reactive, well, you know how it goes in Infinity. Extra hilarity points for situations when those TAGs are removed with a single Fire hit or a Plasma Sniper volley (admittedly, that means the thing is caught out of place on an unfitting table, but still). That said, when units provide something unique that can realistically be put to use, it's surprising what those units can get away with in players' eyes. On a slightly related note, I was looking forward to run our MBT for its coolness factor, but having recently running dice calculator I've found that pitting the thing against typical ARO pieces returns fairly lamentable results. A shame since it's not like that thing can do anything other than shoot HMG and be a fat piece of points in quadrant control.
Overcost? Doesn't the Guija cost around the same as every other MBT? Gorgos, Raicho, Lizzard, Squalo etc. I don't think it's the fact that the Guija is bad, I think it's more to do with the fact that the "vanilla" MBT is lackluster. The same can be said about "vanilla" HI such as Mobile Brigada, Orcs, Suryat, Shang Ji etc. I would even argue that since we have access to Kuang Shi's, we have the edge in terms of the MBT, as the other factions don't appear to have access to cheap order batteries as we do.
That's kinda the thing, aside from HGL profiles those aren't terribly popular. In fact, I'm not sure people here will remember what Lizard is if asked. Well, and that "same" tend to be less than nice, to be honest. Thing is, you can fuel anything with Kuang Shi's, meaning that even if "vanilla" options become more competitive, your "selling point pieces" benefit from them even more.
Maybe it's because every other MBT has its sectorial while Guija is still waiting for IA. Link teams provide order efficiency to run tags, and present less competition for main gun platform, making tags more viable. In vanilla tho, everything you said is true. It's hard to fit guija in when we can have yan huo for half the price.
True but with the exception of the lizard all MBT have something different ( Hiper rapid cannon, heavy granade launcher, chaska etc). And people may like to field a main battle machine without a wierd horde of zombie political prisioners. We complain we are like the villans but then see how our list building is made. I know its a bit complain to complain but out of limited incerscion when i'm playing the guijia i feel weak or playing with a handicap. Okey you got the point here.
Well yeah. Applies to all Mid-Tier, including light infantry like Zhanying, in my opinion. When the unit pays extra for raw stats but not the efficient abilities - and there are really cost effective abilities such as Mimetism. I do dare say that the baseline for TAGs is a tiny bit more expensive than just mid-tier tax. The light TAGs tend towards being a bit costly for performance as well, but less so than the mid-tier.
Yeah, ARM is valued quite highly by the points formula, but it's W/STR that are valuable in game play. Well, last TAG I played was O-Yoroi, but it was still a matter of mobility for me (was playing JSA without a link team). OK, Yan Huo M-HMG is 53 points, Guijia is 88, which is 60% the cost, but point taken about being lots cheaper. However, the only thing in the game with equal/better mobility than a TAG is the Su Jian, and in order to get that mobility you have to sacrifice guns.
Not really though. The Su-Jian, Hsien and the Hac Tao are very order efficient and can be easily fitted into list of 10-14 orders. Meanwhile the TAG will, due to its nature, swallow its entire combat group of orders, so you need that secondary combat group of 5-8 orders to either support the TAG or do other objectives on the side. List building with a TAG is VERY different compared to a list without one. This is also typically the mistake the overwhelming majority of YJ players I come across makes. They never include a Guija and when they do, they see it as an expensive super sized HI and play it as such. Using TAG's in this game is actually rather difficult to do efficiently and isn't as easymode as one would think. The fact that several posters mentions the Yan Hao HMC is proof of this, when they in fact have nothing in common, regarding their roles on the battlefield. Another mistake they tend to do is to give in to their crippling fear of losing the TAG in the first round of an alpha strike, so they will almost always elect to go first, which nearly always means they will burn their first 4-5 orders doing nothing of significant value, earning none of the investment back of the TAG, while making it easier for the opponent to kill it afterwards. Then after failing miserably, people shrug and conclude "oh well, 'cuz I took Guija. Better take a Hac Tao next time!" I know I'm being pedantic here but a MBT is usually an umbrella term that refers to a TAG with a Multi HMG, ARM8 and BTS6, often with a Heavy Flamer, so I was actually wrong in mentioning the Gorgos because neither the Gorgos nor the Szally is a MBT. No, you're almost right on the money. A Guija is absolutely terrible in LI, unless everyone else is also playing the same format. Due to the reasons above.
