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Antipodes, Retreat! and Command Tokens

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Tongfa, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. Tongfa

    Tongfa proudly selling out since 1991

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    Hi all,

    Quick rules question again. If an Antipode assault pack enters retreat from failing their -3 wip roll (e.g. their controller/member of the pack just got killed), can I cancel their retreat! state by burning a command token?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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  3. Vabap

    Vabap Member

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    Yes you can by spending 1 command token since all three antipodes are generating 1 order and generally are considered 1 entry and count as 1 trooper. Antipodes are a unique unit and people usually try to interpret their special rules with similar rules of their own units in other factions since they've never bothered or had the opportunity to read and use the antipodes.
     
  4. holycannoli

    holycannoli Dancing to Kazak Kalinka

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    They best way I can describe the antipode pack's rules is a single model that is on 3 seperate bases. So I assume it would be 1 command token, as it takes only 1 order to activate them, and they only generate 1 order.
     
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  5. geo67

    geo67 Well-Known Member

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    So, dumb newb question, if the Devil Dog leader dies, or Strelok dies, not unconscious, but flat out dead (or even KO'd)do their antipodes leave the game, or run away? Just wondering as this came up in a game on Tuesday, and no one was really sure what happened to the antipode. The consensus was have it leave the table.
     
  6. Alri

    Alri Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    They go disconected till the end of the game.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Disconnected
     
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  7. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    The k9 version in game terms is 'G:Syncronized' rather than 'antipode', so as @Alri says they go into the disconnected state, if the controller is KOed then reviving them will cancel disconnected, if the controller is dead then they basically just sit on the grave like a giant alien Greyfriars Bobby...
     
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  8. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    I hate the rule. It makes no sense and makes it so 99/100 times no one ever bothers to shoot the antipode.

    The dog should really just go berserk and charge person that killed the master. Or baring that the nearest enemy.
     
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  9. geo67

    geo67 Well-Known Member

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    So another question, since they, Antipode and Handler, share the same order, can the Antipode go out of camo and the Handler stay in camo, vice versa, or do they both have to uncamo or stay in camo?
     
  10. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    They have to declare the same order so they'll both reveal at the same time, but they can be discovered separately.
    I think if one of them is in the LOF of an enemy the other can recamo, but the one in LOF triggers AROs while they do.
     
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  11. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    The handler does not have the camo skill.

    As to the number of command tokens that have to be invested:

    ANTIPODE AUTOMATIC SKILL
    Obligatory.
    REQUIREMENTS
    • In order to field troopers with this Special Skill, you must include a trooper with an Antipode Control Device in the same Combat Group.
    • All members of an Assault Pack belong to the same Combat Group, where they count as one single trooper.
    • Troopers with this Special Skill deploy in Assault Packs of at least three members.
    This is truly confusing. In the first and third bullet point, antipodes are described as individual troopers. The second one says that they count as a single trooper for combat group purposes.

    You can make a case for both rulings; one token for each or one token for all. I don't think the rule designer did not consider the Antipode case when writing the Command Token rules. We need an FAQ ruling for that. Even though I am an Ariadna player, I would agree with one token for each because otherwise the cost would be too low.
     
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  12. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure whether this rule truly exists in this way. It still makes sense to shoot the antipodes so your troopers don't get eaten by them.

    They are not dogs. They have a control device because otherwise they would just run away. They are intelligent beings and probably hate their masters.
     
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  13. geo67

    geo67 Well-Known Member

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    So do Margo and Sgt Duroc behave the same way? If she goes down he crumbles? Seems he's his own Dog, and are they worth the points?
     
  14. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    I believe if one of them can do something the other can't then he has to idle.
    Like say the doggo gets into cc but the strelok does not, the dog can declare cc but the strelok has to idle so she stays in camo
    Kinda like scylla in impersonation

    Mirage 9 is amazing, not only does Margot have an amazing BS and a grenade launcher for spec shots on 11s at good range, but duroc has martial arts, meaning he can move stealthily and get into advantageous positions

    They are not G:synchronized so there is no issue if one dies, they are two separate people that just happen to come in one unit
     
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  15. Alri

    Alri Well-Known Member
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    Actualy if you read the wording for G:sync, Camo and Impersonation carefully then you will find out that:

    The condition for cancelation of Camo or Impersanition state is declaration of skill (except the ones specified in camo/imp rule like move skill). and not the performing of the skill.

    In G:sync rule there is strictly writen that both the G:sync trooper and the controler have to declare the same sequence of skills and in case one of them cant perform that skill that he will perform Idle instead.

    So in your case the antipode and strelok both declare move+cc (surprise Attack) which will cancel the camo state for both and since the strelok isnt in CC he will will perform Move+Idle instead. Same holds for any sequence of skills (which cancels camo state) and for Impersonation (aka Scyla)

    Played it badly for while also as I allways thought that the performing of the skill is the condition for Camo state and not its declaration.
     
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  16. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    They have to declare the same order then when unable to perform it they idle.
    Camouflaged is cancelled when:
    • The Camouflaged trooper declares a Skill other than Cautious Movement or a Short Movement Skill that does not require a Roll (except Alert).
    Therefore it would seem that both reveal. (ninja'd by @Alri)
    Duroc is a dog-warrior not an Antipode, so he's human level intelligent without another two pack mates to form a linked personality with. In rules terms he and Margot are separate troopers and don't have to maintain coherency.
     
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  17. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    That's actually a great point guys, order of operations is important. Thanks for the clarification