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Aleph Lore FAQs

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Nemo No Name, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    If you're referring to 3rd offensive, I have been reading bits and pieces in my spare time at home this last week. A friend leant me his copy. I got on the forums hoping to have some questions answered and gain new perspectives, not be idly called an idiot by a net troll.

    On the other hand, if you're referring to the Human sphere book, It's been a while since I looked at it, but I have glanced through and read large parts of it. ALEPH didn't seem to be linked to any one government.
    However, I have no reading material expressly on ALEPH as a faction from a roleplay perspective. I am after all, an emergent player who has only begun delving into the setting.
     
  2. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    I did not gather from the Human sphere book that ALEPH served one faction, but all the human sphere, and had managed to make itself invaluable through commerce, which spanned all major players on Earth and Dawn. That PanOceana, Yu Jing, Haqquislam, and to a lesser extent, Ariadna, had learned to rely on Aleph much the way our generation has learned to rely on the internet. It was there, and over time the attitude was you were doing it the hard way if you did it without ALEPH as a resource.

    Now it's possible I missed the origin story, but I don't recall origins being described for any of the human sphere factions in that book. We simply were left to fill in the time gap ourselves, and that seemed fine.

    As for it using business, the first aspect I covered earlier, that it had to cross national lines through some means ( I assumed commerce since that's where people rely on it). The second reason was that it took pragmatic means that were regarded as sensible and logical, and not deceptive. Admittedly, perhaps this wasn't via commerce, but offhand, it seems far-fetched to say it was through politics. That would imply governments of the future operate with logic and sense, and that's just ridiculous!
     
    #102 DeepThought, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  3. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    No, I'm talking about this:

    [​IMG]
    "ALEPH FACTION BOOK ALEPH and the Human Sphere are one. The first and greatest artificial intelligence has insinuated itself into the daily life of virtually every single human alive today. Now its deepest secrets will be revealed. Inside this sourcebook you’ll also find rules for AI player characters (including recreations, aspects, and renegades), a huge selection of artificial lhost bodies for the resurrected, and the Advanced Infowar rules for the dedicated hacker. Come and explore the depths of Maya, Arachne, and the strange digital realms of the Combined Army!

    112-page colour softback sourcebook featuring everything there is to know about humanity’s AI. Plus rules for playing AI characters (including recreations, aspects, and renegades), a huge selection of artificial lhost bodies for the resurrected, and Advanced Infowar rules."

    There's a whole RPG set in the Infinity universe, and there is a LOT more information (especially on ALEPH, O-12 and other parts of the setting that the Wargame hasn't gone into much) in the Core book, and especially the faction books. It explains ALEPH in detail, including far more on the origin and structure of the AI, as well as the O-12 organisation around it.

    Now, given your other comments you might well enjoy the other parts of the setting which are expanded, including the Hypercorps (which are a playable faction in the RPG). There's a section on them in the core book, and there'll be an expansion book coming out sometime in the future (the kickstarter is still being fulfilled, and the books are available for sale once backers are fulfilled).

    I'm still curious as to where you are getting this version from.

    It doesn't seem to match up to any of the Wargame info on ALEPH, and I own all the current books as well as the previous edition material.
     
  4. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    Ah, I'm touched. My first call out for being troll on this forum! Where's my reward @psychoticstorm !

    All I've ever done for Infinity when I first started was borrow books for fluff. I have copies now in case I want to check something for my roleplaying games. Your immediate connections and ideas threw me for a loop so it set off a red flag for lack of fluff knowledge or re-call. I'm not perfect in infinity fluff but your ideas were more like leaps instead of the usual jumps or skips.

    For me what you said was thus: The Civil War was caused because George Washington didn't like Native Americans.

    I would be very curious to see how someone got to that sort of conclusion.

    So Aleph doesn't exist in a single location. It has nodes, processors, and any other connected devices in the Human Sphere that are not on Concilium. What is on Concilium is known as The Well (pg.8 Aleph Faction Book for the Infinity RPG):

    "Heavily protected, The Well contains the quantronic processors linked in seemingly endless banks, layered to build a vast super-computer many would call ALEPH’s mind. Of course, ALEPH is more than this hub, vastly more, but The Well is the centre of ALEPH. The Well is the source of all Alpha Priority updates. It is here that programming changes, evolutions in design and architecture, and physical changes are made and pushed out across the Human Sphere."

    Yes, control isn't the right word for Toth. They monitor Aleph for its own safety and the safety of the Human Sphere. It does answer to a power though and that's O-12. It was done this way so not one single power had Aleph to itself and also because a totally free AI scares the Human Sphere (not just the Nomads). O-12 keeps a leash on the AI so the rest of the Human Sphere doesn't fear it. There's at least someone who has some oversight on this powerful entity. How tight or loose this leash is depends on who you talk to.

    I don't disagree but you'll get a varied amount of answers on this. Some could care less about fluff when it comes to their miniature games. They're here to play a game, become good at it, win games, and have a good time. Much like playing a sport for competitive reasons and leaving teams rivalries and history at the door. For others having a fluff reason is an icing on top or for some it might be the main driving force. For me personally I don't need a fluff reason to enjoy a fight on the table top and if I can find one it's a nice addition.

    So some examples of why Aleph might throw down with the other factions that aren't the Nomads and the CA.

    PanO: Even though PanO is the most interconnected with Aleph there's this foreign intelligence service called the Hexahedron and they don't exactly share with Aleph. The Hexahedron's main goal isn't the betterment of the Human Sphere but PanO and damn those that get in its way. That includes Aleph. This can lead to all sorts of black ops missions against one another. Maybe PanO got its hands on a sepsitor device and it's not going to share what they've learned or they are going to try and backwards engineer their own from it.

    Additionally, PanO has a lot of hypercorps (who can pull strings to get military units for operations) that can run counter to Aleph's main ideas and missions. Think of the varied cyberpunk scenarios with a corporation and Aleph is bound to act against them or a corporation acting against Aleph.

    Yu Jing: The next most interconnected faction to Aleph but YJ's Party and Emperor have set strict parameters to what Aleph can and can't do. Yu Jing has a foreign intelligence service called the Yanjing and they can easily bring the ire of Aleph or the other way around. Additionally, the Imperial Service might of captured an scientist who is creating his own AI. Instead of letting him live and let YJ extract info out of him they might decide to kill him or extract him themselves.

    Haqqislam: They are connected to Aleph but not in the same fashion as Yu Jing or PanO. Even then Haqqislam has close ties to the Nomads so that's a slight sore point. Oh, and there's the Old Man of The Mountain and his Hassassins. Beyond the usual intelligence and black ops business those two will get in the Hassassin control the main comms network of Bourak (Eye of Allah):

    "Communications coming through the Sari Han Jump Gate are relayed down to Bourak through the Eye of Allah, monitored by the Hassassins. There is a delicate relationship between ALEPH and the Old Man of the Mountain, a give and take whereby information is transacted for uninterrupted and unobserved transmissions from ALEPH. What information, freedom of movement or resources are provided to the Hassassins in exchange for securing an untapped line to the surface of Bourak is, naturally, unknown to anyone but the Old Man of the Mountain and the AI itself." (p.13 Aleph Faction Book for the Infinity RPG)

    Doing me is pointing out factually wrong info and making sure others understand it is and why. CB hasn't written the best sci-fi I've ever read in my life (far from it). No where did I say what CB has done with Aleph is the best AI design ever. Your convoluted and far out their ideas just really made me want to set the record straight on what CB laid down for Aleph was all.

    Your free to do what you want and form your own ideas from the fluff (convoluted or not). Why we have head-canon.

    Origin stories for all of the factions are covered in the main rule book (N1, N2, and N3). The only that isn't the Tohaa and that's found in Campaign: Paradiso. The origins of Aleph are covered in the main rule book under the Aleph section; The Project: Toth, The Gensis of Aleph. The Aleph splat book from the RPG contains similar to exactly the same info.
     
    #104 Solodice, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  5. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    I agree with both @AdmiralJCJF and @Solodice

    I'd add that this stereotyping and insulting language is most certainly not appreciated. You can complain about quality of Infinity lore - we all do. However, the way you complain just shows your biases and looks like a childish rant. Please take your half-baked government-evulz-capitalism-ultimate-good notions somewhere else.
     
  6. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it even impossible to have only 'one' ALEPH?
    As the Circulars move through worm holes, there is like 'an ALEPH in every system',
    and it has to syncronize itself with these with every ship passing through the holes
    and delivering data from the other systems.
     
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  7. Kir

    Kir Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to pointout as a small aside that itd be head-canon, not cannon. Canon is the term for everything that is considered officially part of a setting or story (for example, how much of star wars' expanded universe stories are canon changes regularly).

    A head-canon is what you think is the best/most fun/whatever interpretation of the story/setting.

    A cannon is a long tube that shoots things at high speed, and headcannons are decidedly still cyberpunk at this point.
     
  8. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    Well now that everyone seems finished being emotional, I'm glad to have a better emotional lay of the land on this forum. Now that people are actually quoting material and not making idle claims as if their authority is intrinsic, I feel there might be some good things to learn from you all.

    @AdmiralJCJF I'll consider looking further into your book suggestion. I'll post more on the baselines of my reasoning, and would appreciate you correcting me with detailed information or quotation if possible. My primary source has been the human sphere book, as it was what I read when trying to pick a faction. Sadly though I do not possess such a book at present, so I lack the ability to cite resources.

    Now I admit, my rhetoric is harsh toward Corvus Belli and company. However, I stand by my statement when I say I am disappointed. They have taken an approach typical of their culture in Spain and Europe, rather than strive to think further outside the box.

    @Nemo No Name I submit that you must defend your "harsh stereotype" claim. Does claiming Corvus & co. don't understand the concept of Liassez-faire merit a stereotype, and if so, is it in fact unfair or inaccurate in some way? Stereotypes exist for a reason, and so long as faulty generalizations aren't created from them, they are not in fact, invalid.

    Indeed you might argue My own misunderstanding might well be cultural gap. The more you describe, the more the lot of you present a European mindset to the material, and not a more holistic approach, as had been my first impression. Thus, I submit the majority of my misunderstandings likely stem from a failure to stereotype Corvus & co.
    Hence my disappointment.


    @Solodice I reject your statement. Were you pointing out factually wrong info, you would have cited my words and corrected me with an example or reason, not simply called me wrong on a whim. To put it simply, your claim is invalidated by your previous words.

    With that said, I appreciate that you tried to quote from resources in later posts. My own impression is that said resources were written with a tint of faction bias though, and were therefore not meant to be taken as completely factual. After all, most of the human sphere is written like a propaganda poster for each faction.
     
    #108 DeepThought, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  9. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    I appreciate Kir and daszul's comments. Kir, for pointing out that there is a difference betwen canon and head-canon. The human sphere book is written from a subjective standpoint deliberately in order to leave the factual world of infinity to the imaginations of those playing.
    I also like Daszul's point, which actually points to a concept in programming that would be well worth considering for both us and the game designers: That an AI that thinks ahead, not only can exist in more than one place and maintain internal data integrity with ease, but that it can also create static or dynamic programming for it's simpler extensions in anticipation of where those extensions will go and what they will do. Synchronization is merely the final step in the program learning, as code is ultimately both the thought and the sensory of ALEPH.
     
    #109 DeepThought, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  10. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    This is only true for the miniature game books where you get snippets of info from varying sources. None of that is present in the RPG books which are presented straight with little to no bias.

    Oops, extra n fell in there. Did write that post at like 2/3 in the morning.

    There's a "core" Aleph and a bunch of lesser aspects and sub units spun off of it for this exact reason. You'd probably find one of these running things over on Neoterra. Core Aleph and its spin offs sync info through traveling ships through the worm holes.

    However, having multiple "core" Alephs around can lead to this:

    [​IMG]

    One might decide it's the "true" Aleph and all the trouble that might cause between the other "core" Alephs.
     
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  11. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    @DeepThought : First of all, no-one here needs to justify themselves to you. There is very limited amount of source material for Infinity, and your questions were so broad and wrong that quoting anything in particular seems quite redundant.

    Also, just because CB didn't use what you consider to be a superior explanation doesn't mean they didn't hear about it. Not that laissez-faire is superior to anything expect as generator of misery and oppression. But that all is not a topic for Aleph subforum anyway.

    So, please, if you have specific questions about Infinity and Aleph lore, post them and we'll try to answer them - and then you can accept them - or not.
     
  12. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I imagine it works similar to software development, where you have processes branched out, modified, sent elsewhere, left on a rock for a bit, and then returned and eventually assimilated back into the core of the AI on Concilium.

    Of course, sometimes these branches go a bit too far from the core and/or become possibly compromised so there is an attempt to destroy them instead (see: Perseus)
     
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  13. Kir

    Kir Well-Known Member

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    And Wallace. And Avincenna. Debatable for some others.

    Then again, trying to figure out how a true AI works is not very practical for us, but we can safely assume it knows how concurrency works and that it distributes work and shards of itself between a lot of places. There might not even be one unified "ALEPH" personality, just a bucket of bits that act towards others that operate on a concensus hierarchy.
     
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  14. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    Actually, they do if they are going to point fingers like you just idly did. No question is "wrong" in a discussion, although one must occasionally weigh and point out the assumptions behind it. I notice it's a pattern of yours to make an accusation, then justify why you don't need reasons to back it. For example, you tried to imply Laissez-faire is a platform for misery and oppression, but no matter how many times you slip it in so-as to render it impossible for those who disagree to respond, it doesn't make it true. On the contrary, it indicates you are lacking in facts and are irresponsibly trying to sway others to your view through emotional manipulation.

    As for Solodice's claim, you are assuming a lack of reason when in fact ALEPH is primarily a logic-centered being. The reason logic is considered sound is because you CAN'T have such petty discrepancies in the event of there being multiple cores. Once more you are jumping to Hollywood logic, when in fact the genuine article has more depth.
     
  15. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    Sorry, I expressed myself badly. The assumptions you expressed surrounding your questions were what I wanted to refer as "wrong".
    Try reading about conditions in 19th century UK, or for that matter, in modern USA. Or Africa. ^^

    As for the manner in which I was stating things, I was doing it in the same way as you are making your claims. And as I mentioned before, this is not the forum to debate this.
    Wow, but simply, wow, are you wrong. If you're interested why, this is a bit technical but covers the basics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronization_(computer_science)
     
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  16. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    And yet here you are, debating it. And without a single fact. I could reference "the incredible bread machine" or "I Pencil" (heck, economist Hernando de Soto details how and why in multiple works) as simple examples of why capitalism works and other forms do nothing but hurt people, but you seem intent on just slipping idle claims in without any backing. Modern USA for one has never been less capitalism-centered which is why it's suffering. The socialized healthcare bill is proof enough of that. Who the hell did you learn economics from, and please tell me they're dead or reformed and not deceiving others still.
     
    #116 DeepThought, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  17. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    The more I read of your worldview @DeepThought the more I think that what you want is not ALEPH but the Hypercorps. To quote the RPG Core pg 199:

    "Built on the scaffolding of thirty-seven different agreements, the initial M-CORP law was an intricate cage of rules and regulations, meticulously designed to prevent the rise of another Incorporated State. It effectively dealt a killing blow to regionally-consolidated conglomerates with a global reach and was designed to respect the national interests of O-12’s member states by forcing a corporation to comprehensively honor local law and taxation at each of its facilities. The resulting megacorps could choose to create powerful monopolistic portfolios within a limited region or choose to pursue a global market, but were generally restricted from doing both at the same time."

    and pg 201

    "HYPERCORPS
    Hypercorps are defined by the OSPs which allow them to transcend national, factional, and planetary boundaries, establishing a presence in seemingly every nook and cranny of the Human Sphere; simultaneously belonging to everyone and no one. Hypercorps offer the opportunity to streamline every aspect of their members’ lives, and the reach to make that incredibly desirable. The promise of the Omni-Sided Platform means that Loĝanto never have to rely on anything outside the corporate umbrella of brands. They’re certainly welcome to of course—M-CORP law is brutally clear on that point—but hypercorps keep matters in-house not through force or coercion, but by making it easy, elegant, and cost-effective to do so. A hypercorp’s Loĝanto can travel from Yutang to Neoterra by way of Bakunin, and deal exclusively with their own
    people, their own spaceport check-ins, their own lodging, restaurants, and security. No matter where they go, they are always at home."

    ALEPH is not what you want it to be, and frankly are being highly insulting in demanding it MUST be. But the corporate wonderland you dream of does exist in the setting, using ALEPH, in the form of PanOceania (to some degree) and the Hypercorps (to some degree).
     
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  18. DeepThought

    DeepThought Active Member

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    I appreciate you trying to be diplomatic AdmiralJCJF, but I think you misunderstand my concerns here. I'm not interested in trying to strong-arm my view of ALEPH onto forum denizens with these posts, nor am I particularly concerned about a faction I relate to. I hardly need to be appeased in that regard, although I appreciate the gesture. What concerns me is the attitude of those who have argued- or rather, failed to argue with me in the forum up to this point. I expressed that I had areas I was unclear on, and upon seeing I had some contradictory concepts to the lore in my questions, they respond without citation, then accuse me of not reading any material and proceed to spout their own ideas without reference to any material. They then claim I'm wrongly stereotyping the game designers for expressing my disappointment in Corvus & Co. for taking a less comprehensive approach (take note, I didn't deny their comments as wrong. I just expressed that if they were right, then I was disappointed). Then, when I ask them to explain themselves and show how I am in the wrong, they add to their old accusation and idly accuse me of throwing a tantrum, and proceed to mock everything I have spoken of, spouting unsubstantiated lies about me, repeat mindless propaganda against capitalism (which I found it sneaky and underhanded of NoName to bring up twice, then claim this "wasn't a place to discuss it" both times), and excuses about my argumentation.

    I am concerned that no one seems to be bothered that Solodice and NemoNoName have taken an antagonistic tone with me simply because I dared to have a differing opinion and question their theories. That they have failed to open even the vaguest form of dialogue despite numerous invitations, and would rather stir up contempt for those not of like minded nature to themselves. There is no place in any forum for such behavior.
     
  19. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    [​IMG]

    “If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.” - Raylan Givens
     
  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Please pardon my greater-than-usual terseness, I had rotator-cuff surgery on Feb8, and am one-finger typing right now. It's frustrating.


    Why is there (deliberately) no competition to Aleph? Because it's a weakly-godlike superintelligence (ie, not close to all-powerful, but not very far at all from all-knowing)!

    Read the Combined Army fluff about Nemesis for what happens when you have two competing weakly-godlike superintelligences in the same place. Or, really, any mythology where gods are fighting for control of Creation.

    Making a weakly-godlike superintelligence is functionally equivalent to making God (because it is constantly getting closer and closer to all-knowing and at some point it *will* figure out how to become ever-closer to all-powerful, that is the very definition on what self-improving intelligence is.)


    As for the rest of your comments, @DeepThought , I don't want to dogpile on you but you really need to sit down and read the Infinity fluff in the Core book and in Human Sphere N3. Your head-canon of how Aleph works reads to me like you skimmed it, and have missed big pieces. Critical pieces, too.



    EVO hacking devices (specifically, the AxtraNiches) establish the existence of FTL comms in the setting. Specifically, FTL comms fast enough to enable hacking attacks from a different solar system.