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AI Beacon Vs Tactical Window

Discussion in 'Rules' started by xagroth, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    So, we have a new Extra: Tactical Window.

    It boils down to: list limited to 15 TROOPS.

    We know things like perimetrals, mines, etc... are not Troops, but Gear. However, AI Beacons (Imetrons & Netrods) are not considered Troops, but Gear (can't be repaired, nor moved betweeen groups, etc...).

    So an Aleph / CA list with those... could deploy 18/17 orders (regulars and irregulars) plus the Fury ones?

    I know it's not a likely proposition for elite armies, but well... just asking.
     
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  2. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    I presume this also allows G:Jumper to count as one trooper?
     
  3. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    And G: Servants and G:Syncronized too, yeah XD
     
  4. Chade

    Chade Member

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    Yeah. That's a bit of a hot mess again. Like said, Palbots RAW are troops although they probably should not count for this limitation.
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Strictly speaking, a list containing minimum amount of Proxies will have 2 troops. Hint: you can tell they aren't the same troops because they don't share wounds and when one gets glued they don't all get glued.
    OTOH, lists containing Proxies will also have Netrods available, and those aren't troops.
     
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  6. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Same question for puppetbot, 1 troop or 4 troops ?
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I think strictly speaking what you should be asking isn't whether a specific trooper really is a trooper, but rather whether the rules don't mean "15 troop slots in the combat groups"

    Puppetactica: 1 to 4 Troops, depending on how many Puppetbots you chose to bring.
     
  8. CaptainVenge

    CaptainVenge Frog with Light Rocket Launcher

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    Builder says that netrods are "Support troops".
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Rules say otherwise.

    Remember that troop classification has no bearing on whether the unit is a trooper, veteran, etc etc. They share nomenclature but does not share rules because of this.
     
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  10. gregmurdock

    gregmurdock Extremely Beloved Member

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    It's the same as Limited Insertion and we all know how that works.

    LI: 10 or less slots in one combat group.
    TW: 11 to 15 slots in two combat groups.

    I don't know why this would be confusing.
     
  11. Gunmage

    Gunmage Well-Known Member

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    That's not what LI says, though. LI only restricts you to one group, without actually discussing the number of slots, troopers and/or slot-taking equipment in that group. TW is different, but its description doesn't refer to slots/choices either - it refers to troops. And not everything you take in your list is a trooper, which may be or not be what CB is referring to in this extra.
     
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  12. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
    Warcor

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    Troops are counted the same way that you do when making a group, every rule thats say that several troopers count as one when moving between groups, count as one (G:proxy. G:sync, G:servant)

    They just want to cap the amount of order-generating troops you bring in a list (ignoring skills and characteristics that generate extra orders, like Tactical Awareness, LT2, Frenzy, etc)

    Helllois said that one way to look at this is to count no more thant 15 irregular and/or regular orders on the list.

    Edit: netrods count as troopers in this case.
     
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  13. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    A source might be needed.

    A better wording is strongly required, since this "problem" was noted less than five hours since the release of the document. Certainly, proofreading is not being done by an external contractor...
     
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  14. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
    Warcor

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    This was thrown around when trying to define if the Tactical Window limitation was in troopers (bodies) or troopers (orders). It was debated but not changed on the final form, i think because it was though most people would use Limited Insertion as the guide to define the limit.

    upload_2019-9-2_15-8-8.png

    But if you use this wording it gets complicated with tactical awareness, there was no simple solution.
     
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  15. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    "Order-generating troopers"?
     
    #15 Sabin76, Sep 3, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
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  16. Gunmage

    Gunmage Well-Known Member

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    That's a decent explanation of intent... Although Sabin76's wording is better.
     
  17. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Or, at least it would have been had I spelled it correctly the first time :P.
     
  18. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    *watches with interest*
     
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  19. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    It is quite simple, if "Trooper" gets defined beforehand. Another option is to say, in the Tactical Window description, that AI Beacons count for this limit, while Posthumans do not (or, indeed, do count towards it, depending on the relationship with Datatracker).
     
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  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    One extra sentence would have done the trick. The solution is very simple. The ITS rules need to be proofread more deeply before publication; this is a consistent problem.