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Advise for M-Drone, Sat-Lock, Sensor and Sniffers

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Sanjuro, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. Sanjuro

    Sanjuro Active Member

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    Tried running this in a list
    [​IMG] Combined Army──────────────────────────────────────────────────[​IMG]1 [​IMG] M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17) 0 SWC | 17 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    so I find sat lock sensor and sniffers are mostly tied together and didn’t really get it. Tried to use it on 2 markers I knew were mine and mine layer and it seemed like yeah if id get the sniffers down earlier, I could discover them both so maybe that’d be good for laying out in front of advancing Ariadna? Can someone give a step by step explanation for vanilla use of these skills?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    What? No. Sat Lock is for long order shooting, sniffers is for the Sensor short order... and also gives a +6 to Discover rolls against camo tokens without any extra expenditure.

    Best pairing is in other factions where the 8pts flash pulse remote also carries sniffers, so you can make a coordinated of move + deploy sniffers with all of them, for example.
     
  3. Styx

    Styx Cat.IE~~

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    M-Drone tips:

    REM specialist as FO. Also you have pulse flash on ARO or attack skill, and FO attack to do Mark state.

    As a FO and having Sensor skill, you can use Triangulated Fire.
    Sniffer equipment for deployable item, negate the using re-camouflage order inner the Sensor ZC, also Sensor skill add's this effect like Sniffers.

    - To discover CAMO/TO markers, you can use Sensor or Satlock.
    ENSOR SHORT SKILL
    Attack, Optional, Zone of Control.
    REQUIREMENTS
    EFFECTS

    SAT-LOCK ENTIRE ORDER
    Comms Attack, Comms Equipment, Optional, No LoF, Zone of Control.
    REQUIREMENTS
    EFFECTS
    • This Special Skill allows its user to declare a Comms Attack with a WIP-6 Roll against a target within Sensor Area.
    • This Roll applies no further MODs (for Range, Cover, CH, ODD...) or bonuses unless otherwise specified.
    • Upon a successful Roll, the target enters the Targeted state, signified by a Targeted Marker (TARGETED).
    • The user need not have LoF to the target.
    • With this Special Skill, the Comms Attack may be declared against an enemy Camouflage or TO Camouflage Marker. In that case, a successful Roll not only tags the target as Targeted, but also Discovers him, replacing the Marker with the target's model.
    So, Satlock are the best option to do, discover+mark state, but you have that -6WIP on dice roll. Against RESET ARO or hack attack (bcs you are a REM), for that tip, u can use E-Drone EVO to get bonus for stalocks.
    EVO HACKING DEVICE AUTOMATIC EQUIPMENT
    Comms Equipment
    REQUIREMENTS
    EFFECTS

    • Allows the use of SWORD L1, SHIELD L2 and all GADGET programs.
    • In addition, allows the use of the following GADGET-EVO programs:
    • This piece of Equipment allows players to enlist REMs in their Army List.
    • The EVO Hacking Device allows use of the Tactical Support Systems, a series of automatic and simultaneous Bonuses:
      • EVO Hacking Device allows the use of Hacking Programs in a Coordinated Order. It is not mandatory for all the Hackers in the Coordinated Order to use the same Hacking Program.
      • This piece of Equipment allows players to spend a Command Token to re-roll a single failed Normal or Face to Face WIP Roll when declaring the use of a Hacking Program. The player may re-roll just one die, no matter the Burst value of the Hacking Program he used.
      • The player who has the second Player Turn may spend a Command Token to deploy one troop with the EVO Hacking Device with one GADGET-EVO Supportware Hacking Program active. During the Deployment Phase the player will place the corresponding Supportware Marker with the EVO Hacker Device bearer on the table. This action is not considered a Strategic Use of the Command Token.
      • This piece of Equipment automatically provides a Bonus that nullifies the -6 MOD to the WIP Roll for the Sat-Lock Special Skill for any friendly trooper.
      • An EVO Hacking Device automatically provides a +3 PH Bonus to the Airborne Deployment Special Skill. This Bonus is not cumulative with the Controlled JumpSupportware Hacking Program, nor with the Bonus provided by other additional EVO Hacking Devices.

    That combo are abaliable on all EC and all factions, vanilla and sectorials, bcs they have the same drones/remotes options, and that's its an another tip to how playing to discover markers, without msv2/3, out of LoF/LoV, only to discover/mark into enemy ZC.
     
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  4. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Yes, I think you're right that they're related - the M-Drone is a package with ways and means of achieving the same thing, which is to "to uncover hidden threats in one's immediate surroundings." as the fluff says, ie. reveal targets in Marker State.

    Of course, the usual way to reveal Camo Markers is to Discover them - a Common Skill requiring Line of Fire to the target and a WIP roll; but it's not terribly efficient. Actually, it's rubbish because of these constraints:
    So a Morat Vanguard or Daturazi Witch Soldier trying to Discover a TO Camo Marker in partial cover at Medium range gets Modified like this: WIP 13 + (TO Camo -6) + (Partial Cover -3) + (0 Range Mod) = 4

    Terrible. And this clause is pretty harsh, too
    • A trooper that fails a WIP Roll to Discover a Marker cannot attempt to Discover the same Marker until the next Player Turn.
    So it all adds up to Ariadna players laughing in their low-tech way at the rest of us (cue @macfergusson for gratuitous gloating) :wink:

    So that's rubbish, and Sensor is a Special Skill that's an alternative and vastly more efficient way of revealing Markers. It requires Zone of Control, but doesn't require LoF to the target and isn't affected by the usual range MOD.s. It adds a mighty +6 to the WIP roll and can include multiple targets in your Zone, so an M-Drone trying to reveal (possibly multiple) targets gets Modified like this:

    WIP 13 +6 for Sensor + (no negative MOD.s for Range = 19.

    Which is not too shabby. And Sniffer is just a means of extending your ZoC so you can roll your 19s on targets that're farther away.
    • A Sniffer can be used by friendly troopers with the Special Skill Sensor to declare that Special Skill in the Sniffer's Zone of Control (an 8-inch/20cm radius) as if it were their own. (etc. etc.)
    So yes, I think you're right when you say
    but I haven't tried this myself - maybe others can comment of its efficacy?

    Finally, Sat Lock is a related skill; it Discovers the target unit AND puts it into the Targeted state but requires a WIP -6.

    Example of use: an opponent with two Markers on the side of a building, which you think are a TO unit and a Mine.
    Move the M-Drone up to the other side of the building, so's not to trigger the possible Mine but to get them within your Drone's ZoC. Then use Sensor to Discover them; or if you're feeling lucky, use Sat Lock to Target + Discover and then pick them off.

    Hope that helps. Any corrections from others, or more detailed suggestions for how to use the M-Drone and Sniffers tactically?
     
  5. KaiAgni

    KaiAgni Member

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    Nailed it. Thanks. I have been needing clarification on this before playing it. Last last part now is taking the E-drone to reduce you sat lock to 0 mod. Right?
     
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  6. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    It's worth noting that Sensor gives you +6 to all discover rolls, not just the sensor sweep, so it's still useful for discovering at range.

    The M-Drone is just a fantastic package, even against an enemy without camo you've got a 6-4 Move specialist with a repeater to expand your hacking area, an emergency attack piece with Assisted Fire Supportware, and an option for sniping ODD units with triangulated fire, and an emergency ARO piece due to flash pulse (bonus if you have an E-Drone running Overclock).

    Add in sensor for discovering at range or close up, Sat-lock combo'd with an E-Drone, and sniffers from 8 point messenger bots (that also benefit from Overclock, such a great program!) and you've got a really versatile toolbox for a bargain price.
     
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  7. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    I am summoned.

    @colbrook brings up a very important point, the passive bonus to Discover that the Sensor skill grants works ALL THE TIME (not just on Active turn), and is arguably more consistently useful than the actual active use of Sensor, (unless your opponent has a tendency to clump up camo markers, which usually they shouldn't do that).
     
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  8. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Nice replies (but I'm almost disappointed we had no gloating from Mac) :smile: this is how what @colbrook is referring to would work
    • Sensor also grants its user, automatically and without making Rolls or spending Orders, a +6 MOD to WIP when declaring Discover against Camouflage or TO Camouflage Markers.
    So let's say M-Drone is using Discover against an TO Camo Marker in ARO at Medium range - presumably having advanced into LoF

    WIP 13 + (TO Camo -6) + (Partial Cover -3) + (Med. Range Mod 0) + (+6 Sensor bonus) = 10

    which isn't good betting odds, but it isn't bad, and the 'cannot attempt to re-Discover' clause is probably less of a penalty.

    Again I've not tried this myself, but presumably we could park the Drone behind a building such that the ZoC is threatening Sensor through the walls to the blind sides of the building AND also cover a fire lane visually so if anything advances into it we can get the Discover bonus. So we'd force the opponent to come into an area where we can use Sensor, or burn Orders to go around us.
     
    #8 Wolf, Apr 11, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  9. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    I don't gloat in public!

    Besides, I'm playing Tohaa for a while. :P
     
  10. Antonia_Canibal

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    EDIT: I realized after posting that @Wolf already clarified the rule in this same thread. I apologize :skull:

    I dont understand your math. Or even why do you mix ranges and cover with sensor rule.
    upload_2018-4-11_11-13-55.png

    This means that you roll a wip+6 and thats it. But it only works in your sensor zone. (ZofC+sniffers' ZofC).

    Example. A TO camo in hidden state and a camo marker are behind a wall. You have no LOF to discover.
    1st order _With your R-Drone: You Move+Drop a sniffer at the other side of the wall.
    2nd order_ With you M-Drone: You declare Sensor with your M drone and roll a Wip+6. No negative modifiers. (That sniffer you deployed with the R dron increased you sensor zone(ZofC+sniffers's ZofC)
    If you succeed yoy will reveal everything in you sensor zone: The Camo token and ALSO THE TO CAMO IN HIDDEN STATE.

    upload_2018-4-11_11-22-20.png

    Yes, the M-R combo is great. Im learning to play the game(been around few months) and I have found myself wasting 2-3 orders just to reveal a camo withouth any reason ^^"!

    BTW, its a sho
     
    #10 Antonia_Canibal, Apr 11, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
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  11. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    @Antonia_Canibal
    Sensor applies bonuses in two different ways.

    The first, which you have a good understanding of, is what we often call the "sensor sweep". It reveals all units within Zone of Control of Sensors or Sniffers, ignoring modifiers, if you succeed at a WIP+6 roll.

    The second version, which was referred to above, is when you attempt to Discover a unit at long range. This is not a "sensor sweep", but just a regular Discover against a single enemy target. In this case, you suffer all modifiers (range, modifiers for Camo/TO Camo, partial cover, etc.)

    In that situation, Sensor gives a +6... But it suffers all modifiers.

    This is useful if you need to Discover a Camo Token far away, outside your Zone of Control.

    It's mentioned in the 4th bullet point of the rules you listed:

    "Sensor also grants its user, automatically and without making Rolls or spending Orders, a +6 MOD to WIP when declaring Discover against Camouflage or TO Camouflage Markers."
     
  12. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    But not Impersonation? :(
     
  13. Styx

    Styx Cat.IE~~

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    No, that bonus are only for all camo+TO markers. Not from impersonation and holoeco, for that you need Biometric visors on Bao troops from YJ on impersonation markers. Btw, if you playing that xenos as CA or Tooha, all impersonation markers against you, only works on 2scnd IMP state, bcs you are an allien.
     
    #13 Styx, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
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  14. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    My brain just stored as "on discover rolls".
     
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  15. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Yeah, sensor works against hidden things, not disguised things.

    Next up, CB creates a rule called "Biolocator" that works as sensor but only works against holoechoes and impersonators, because they did that with visors already.
     
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  16. macfergusson

    macfergusson Van Zant is my spirit animal.

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    heh... umm... http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Biolocator
     
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  17. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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  18. Sanjuro

    Sanjuro Active Member

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    Thanks everyone for your replies. And thanks wolf Ive booked an afternoon off work to read yours ;)
     
    #18 Sanjuro, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  19. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Oh, harsh! :smile:
     
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  20. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    I learned to love the FO+Sensor remotes while playing PanO, and I think an M-Drone has been in every Combined list I’ve made so far. 6-4 move, specialist, reveals camo, flash pulse aro, in a pinch the E-Drone can Assisted Fire it through its own repeater for a fast attack piece if the Q-Drone has already died. Also Triagulated Fire is one of the least used tools in the game but properly applied it can really throw your opponent off their game.
     
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