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Advice requested regarding potential IA lists.

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Cdr. Philip von Kruse, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. Cdr. Philip von Kruse

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    Hi everyone :)

    I am a comparatively new player, brought into the game by a fellow that primarily plays Aleph and a bit of PanO whom I have never won against outside tutorial games. What would be some good list ideas for IA against Steel Phalanx, OSS and Varuna? Tactical advice is also very much welcomed.

    PS:
    I hate Eclipse grenades. And Helots.
     
  2. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Are you looking for general advice or are you going to be playing a specific mission?
     
  3. Cdr. Philip von Kruse

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    Mostly general advice, as it has mattered little what mission we play, he consistently whoops my behind :)
     
  4. Tibooper

    Tibooper Well-Known Member

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    I've never encountered the Steel Phalanx on the table yet, but from the few infos I've acquired here and with a visit on their side in Army, I think I can recommend at least this:

    - Big need of MSV since a lot of their troops have ODD, unfortunately we don't have much but they're good nonetheless. The Haidao Multi sniper is a beast inside of a FT Core and the Rui Shi is a gift given its price. The Lu Duan can also be usefull by eventually burning their ODD and have a MSV1 too. Have what is needed to maintain them alive/to repair them, since they will be the first target of your opponent.

    - They seems to hate Shock ammo. They have a lot of troops with 1.5 wound, but No Shock Immunity of any kind, so bring it! My first tought is the Mowang with Red Fury, but we have a good number of profiles that can OS those guys with those bullets: Zencha with SMG and mines, Yan Huo HMC/Multi-HMG, anything with a multi rifle in hands, heavy pistols... Even the remotes I've mentionned above can, you just have to buff them with Assisted fire and enjoy the shootout after.

    For Varuna, I know very little, except that they love Camo too (so MSV here again), have a very hard-to-break ARO piece (the Kamau sniper), and that plague for IA that is the jammer...

    I end it there, others with a better knowledge of those factions will come and help you, I'm sure ;)
     
    #4 Tibooper, Oct 3, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    Azuset likes this.
  5. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
    Warcor

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    With SP If this were generic or ISS I'd suggest cheap piece transaction such as kuang shi or monks, unfortunately IA don't have that option you're a tought elite style faction playing against a hard to hit elite faction, I'd echo the above advice of Haidao and Rui shi.

    Another option is a Liu Xing, SP like to move in groups usually in a bit of a battle line (no infiltrating camo markers) so you can use AD to either artillery strike them or flank them with a Boarding shotgun, the former ignores ODD the latter negates it with a +6, reactive options such as a linked ML or the yan huo ML are also good at restricting teams from moving around.
     
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  6. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. I think this is the most optimal approach to both armies. IMO the most reliable way to remove the Kamau is Assisted fire Ru shi with IA. There are other ways but they are a bit situational. For instance, you may be able to drop that Lui at an angle on the fire team with the kamau where the the Kamau does not have LOF and take out a different unit. Thus dropping the +3 BS on the Kamau.

    Or maybe you have second turn and you happen to have taken a Hac Tao ML and stack ARO's with the Haido Sniper. Then your opponent gets aggressive with the Kamau link (or any link) and you knock off a non-fire team leader model with your Hac Tao. You could possibly clip some splash damage on the rest of the team.

    Having an Engineer around to pick up the Ru shi is a must. I also always run a paramedic Zanshi with my Haido. If you are really feeling frogy and have the SWC you can always run two Ru shi's (maybe skip the engineer?)

    Remember those heavy flamers on the Guija and Lu Duan have a 10.5 inch range and can intuitive attack. This means you can burn down camo outside of Jammer range providing you have a good attack vector.

    Another tactic you can do is use the EVO + Weibing + chai for Sat locking camo. Then light up the target with Son Bae. In my experience this is not very effective. But if you have a easy way to get inside ZOC outside of LOF on a trooper (camo of other wise) you can smash them down.

    Good luck!
     
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  7. Cdr. Philip von Kruse

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    Thanks for the advice so far, I will certainly be taking it to heart. I am assuming that against OSS, utilizing a Zuyong FT: Core or Haris with a tinbot B deflector L2 will help a great deal against any potential assault hackers, no?
     
  8. Cdr. Philip von Kruse

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    Maybe throw a Haidao hacker in the FT as they have Wildcard, so there is counter-hacking capabilites as well?
     
  9. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    It really just depends on how you want to run your IA. Whatever way you go about it you will have huge vulnerabilities. You wont be able to fit in all the tools you want. If you are really worried about hackers you can get a tinbot and or a Haido KHD in your link. Also, keep Fair dust up.

    Another way to go about it is use a Pang FTO. It has a repeater on it. Put that in a link with a tinbot. Then keep your KHD Haido in a safer place.

    Don't forget the KHD Hac Tao. I personally have not used this profile yet. I have read a lot of people love this profile. They get him into a good place in the midfield. He can push buttons and do work killing units midfield. With the KHD you can use Cybermask if you are staring at lot of mines or MVS2 units. If you have Fairy dust up he is a KHD with WIP 14 and BTS 9.

    When I am running IA, with whatever configuration, I always try and identify my biggest threats on the other side of the battle field. Then I go after those units. For me, that usually means visible KHD hackers. This is because I use the Daoying Hacker Ltl2 in every game. I just can't get away form it. It's great to have the extra orders but after this unit pops out of camo to buff a bot or put up Fair Dust it's and easy target for a KHD.

    If I can take them out sooner than later I press on. I try to get in a good position that's not easy to get LOF on from my enemy. Then I try and have a solo gun fighter watching over my troopers that are moving up. The solo Zuyoung HMG or even a Mowang is a good choice for this. That way I have a better chance at cross covering firing lanes.
     
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  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    The kinds of lists I have been making for IA have all featured the 'death star', a big Zuyong Core team.

    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)

    TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)

    SHÀNG JÍ Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 39)

    HǍIDÀO Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
    YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)​

    ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34)
    WÈIBĪNG Yaókòng Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    PANGGULING (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    4.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    You don't really need Chain of Command when your LT is hiding under a camo marker in the back of your deployment zone. Even Impersonators still need to discover before attacking, which reveals the Impersonator.

    The Shang Ji HRL can be swapped out for a Zuyong ML, Krit FTO with all the EM gear, or even another Zuyong TacWare HMG if you're feeling extra shooty. Depends on what you're facing. The Krit FTO is kinda growing on me, since you're almost certainly advancing with that fireteam anyway. It is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that you keep that team spread out to avoid EM trouble.
     
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  11. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    @Section9 I think this is fine "Death Star" but do you have advice on how to use it against SP, OSS, or Varuna?
     
    #11 Azuset, Oct 3, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
    Cdr. Philip von Kruse likes this.
  12. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    Aside from the advice above. My best advice would be to play the mission first and foremost. Don't engage in actions you dont have to take.

    Do your best to ignore those troopers that are a hard counter for IA if you can.
     
  13. Cdr. Philip von Kruse

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    Well, thankfully he has only brought Achilles against me once. But damn did he wreck muh dudes.
     
  14. Azuset

    Azuset Well-Known Member

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    I bet.
     
  15. Tibooper

    Tibooper Well-Known Member

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    In IA, I'd say that Krit can be a good counter to him by throwing some E/Mauler in his path. Make a Duo with him and a Pangguling FTO (to refill him) and he can become literally a E/M-pizza guy, delivering where you need. Add a TacAware Zuyong with Harris is you want the extra order for repositioning.

    This is probably not the best option but I like imagining him riding the Pangguling, launching mines with the "Pizza time" music from the Spider-Man 2 game in the background :stuck_out_tongue:
     
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  16. Cdr. Philip von Kruse

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    That.. Is actually a pretty good idea.. I might have to employ that if I have a feeling he is bringing Achilles. I have lately been utilizing Zuyong fireteams (primarily Haris) more with the zuyong Fireteam: Haris that carries the Tinbot B deflector L2 to prevent hacking. Apparently, that surprised him a bit, but the usual eclipse grenade bullshit continued as well as EM grenades of course. Only thing I can do there is attempt suitable spacing, no? I mean, if it was normal smoke, at least the Haidao sniper with its MSV2 could see through it, but noooo, eclipse grenades have nae counter.. Pardon the rant, but I really do hate eclipse grenades..
     
    #16 Cdr. Philip von Kruse, Oct 4, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2019
  17. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
    Warcor

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    @Cdr. Philip von Kruse

    Vs Steel Phalanx:
    MSV2 has been mentioned, but that Haidao Sniper's nice too. If you can challenge Achilles from range, and slap him with Stun, he'll be out of commission for a turn and unable to press the attack. A Haidao's pretty resilient to Spitfire bursts also, so you may be able to get in a few Orders worth of contesting Achilles, which can help slow him down, or force another unit in his force to lay Eclipse for him so that he can advance. Either way, you're doing well by holding Achilles up.

    Speaking more generally, Mines are also a nice tool to use when confronting Eclipse throwers. If you're going after an Eclipse-tossing character, there's simply a very good chance they'll beat your attacks with a successful smoke toss. You can counteract this a bit by dropping a mine nearby, and either force them to do a conventional Dodge (much less likely to succeed) or else eat the Shock hit.

    Whatever flavor of Steel Phalanx you fight, make sure you poise for the counterattack. It's pretty common for Steel Phalanx (either Enomotarchos teams or Achilles) to roll in aggressively, fight, and end up somewhere near your lines or in the midfield. Poising your units for a good counter-attack, and making sure your effective counter-attackers stay alive, have enough Orders, are in Combat Groups where they can best concentrate their efforts, etc. will really help you.

    Vs OSS:
    Most commonly, you're looking at two major factors that influence your ability to own the table: the Dakini link, and the Posthuman Mk2 Sniper. Has that been your experience? That tends to be the most common cornerstone of OSS lists, but specialty threats like Yadu, Asura, etc. are going to behave very differently, so it's helpful to know which units you commonly encounter. In particular, OSS can leverage a lot of E/M, though they don't often do so. A lot of OSS players rarely utilize it, but it's there, so be cautious.

    If you're looking at that general long-range fire superiority, I suggest play to the mission as much as possible, digging into the midfield as best you can with mines, Specialists, etc. so that the OSS player is forced to displace from his DZ and come out to engage you. You really don't want to play to the fire superiority game of OSS if you can avoid it... Forcing the OSS player out of his DZ as much as possible, away from their Engineer and relative safety of long-range, and bringing him forward where he's vulnerable to close range attacks with templates, mines, etc makes a big difference.

    Vs VIRD:
    Learn what unit is likely to be hiding under each Camo token. Helots cannot deploy outside their DZ, Zulu Cobra have FD L1, etc. so try to use those telltale deployment spaces to spot which Camo Tokens correspond to which units. Helots can be dangerous, but only if you've let yourself get distracted fighting another target, or wander into a bad ARO position. Be methodical in going after them, using Discover + Shoot with a decent, durable gunfighter.

    Zencha are quite a decent tool for going after Jammer Zulu Cobras, since they can Climb onto rooftops without breaking marker state, thereby bypassing Jammer, supporting AROs from Helots and Kamau, etc.

    Forcing their hand with a simple Discover + Shoot once you're in close will help, and having a little BTS in case a lucky Jammer ARO slips through is helpful too. VIRD struggles with heavy attack... They focus a lot on projecting that lethal firepower to help lock the table down... So the more that you can pick apart their defense, the more quickly they start to unravel and leave holes that you can pressure or exploit.
     
  18. Cdr. Philip von Kruse

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    Huh. I hadn't thought of dealing with Machaon with mines... Zhenchas would be the more useful option there than the Daoying Sniper, as she is not really supposed to get that close. Not a bad idea though. And yes, the Enomotarchos with Machaon and Phoenix is what I usually am up against. That, and Thrasymedes with thorakitai. And Atalanta at the back lines, ready to peek and annihilate anything that isn't a sniper in a Fireteam: Core. When he plays OSS, we usually have them Dakinis, Post-human Proxies as well as one or more Yadu's. And Dart, of course.
     
  19. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    @Cdr. Philip von Kruse

    Here is what I would bring to go against Steel Phalanx. As a long time HB player, they've always been my bane. You absolutely need MSV2, and\or flamethrowers which HB has none of. In IA I don't usually play Ruishis or Lui duans, but find them fun in Ikari. In this list I only put 1 LuiDuan to make room for a Liu Xing. But 2 LuiDuan using HoloEcho lets you put 8 Ruishis on your courtesy list. This usually makes your opponent waste a couple order trying to remove your (fake) remotes. I personally like having a Liu Xing, but swaping him out for a second Lui Duan is a solid option. In Ikari I usually play them with a EVO remote to run Overclock. I personally play IA in order to use LT2 \ NCO \ TA fireteam in limited insertion. Which eats up most of the list. But its just too good in general to take out.


    The second list drops the Limited insertion and Liu Xing, for 2 LuiDuan and an Evo.
    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 (Minelayer) MULTI Sniper, Antipersonnel Mines / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYǑNG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 28)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    LIÚ XĪNG Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 32)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    RUI SHI Spitfire / Electric Pulse. (1 | 20)
    LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    LÙ DUĀN Mk12, Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    TAI SHENG Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 45)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZÚYǑNG (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 28)
    HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1
    PANGGULING Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)

    4.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Cdr. Philip von Kruse likes this.
  20. Cdr. Philip von Kruse

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    I will definitely have to try these, thank you so much! :slightly_smiling_face: