Cause I'm typing on mobile I keep reading the wrong lines and read percent for unbuffed Liu Cing vs 1 Hacker .518*.65=.3367 (because both chance have to stick) Further argument is that HTA benefits secondary targets as well, unlike any other ARO.
Yeah, killing the EVO has more of an effect than HTA. I don't think HTA is bad (the protect others use is solid) but I do think 'HTA or nothing' is limiting. If that's the intention and it's balanced around that then it's fine (al la Change-facing shenanigans). But I don't think that the game needs another interaction to make Hackers less viable.
@inane.imp agreed. My interpretation is that the special aro timing of HTA doesn't preclude later ARO's.
As much as I'm defensive about an unreleased unit, I think you're making assumptions regarding the targets of an unreleased unit. Currently my opinion is that in order to use AD you have to clear all enemy hackers first, and even then the chances of landing correctly is not high enough for the order cost. This is changing now that you can drop down outside of a template so we'll see. Whether or not ExplodeX actually make much difference or if it's a trap dropping a 40-point trooper in middle of a link team, we'll see. With very low chance of succeeding in killing more than a couple of light infantry, and with a significant amount of models now watching the Liu Xing directly due to Warning, the chances that Liu Xing will actually kill many models at all with an aggressive drop is low (regardless of DAM value on explosion). Better make those few models be tactically valuable.
That is so blatantly wrong that i don't know if you are genuinely serious... A single model can have only a single ARO. Repeat with me. A single model can have only a single ARO. If a Hacker uses HTA, that will be his ARO. It's even in the rules. http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Hack_Transport_Aircraft EFFECTS Allows the user to react in ARO to the declaration of an AD: Combat Jump, even without LoF to the target. Given that, it is NOT compulsory to use it. If the Paratrooper try to land in front of your Hacker, you can forgoes the hacking and use a normal ARO (if the enemy does not disperse).
I do not understand how you can draw this conclusion. When I use Airborne Deployment and mark my intended landing area, your Hacker gets an ARO. If your answer to the question "are you going to ARO with that Hacker" is "No", then you have answered "No" to whether you will use your ARO opportunity. I'd also point out that BS Attack and Dodge are also not mandatory. Because you do agree on that other models can't ARO with your other troopers before the AD roll is made, correct? --- What gets me is that we've been aware of this interaction before. It passed by without much comment or fuss. It's like just because there is an attack involved as well, a developer's answer is suddenly wrong?
I can see the fault in it, but HTA is (should be) a sort of special ARO declaration. It's an AUT AUT with the standard ARO, only one of them and never both.
Basic hackers and killer hackers are everywhere currently. Between the supportware to remotes and cheap specialist who can nuke the supportware guy. Assualt hackers are the main ones not particularly viable, and they don't really factor into this 'shenanigan'. I think forcing hackers to choose between hta, edit: or die isnt the best mechanic but its not broken as such.
I wonder if giving assault hackers a programme to "nuke" suportware ala "Hack Transport Aircraft" might prompt a resurgence in their use?
Interesting thought, but how would that work? AHD already do better at simply isolating and/or immobilizing the REM/HI, and since Supportware requires no WIP roll to engage you can't really FTF it like Hack Transport does.
I imagine he wants a "counter target supportware program" with a normal roll... but a lot of those remotes also carry a repeater, so the idea goes down in flames pretty quickly. Nope, the supportware is not so prevalent (Nomads uses it a lot, Aleph not as much outside Vanilla because of the Jumper LZ) to justify the added vulnerability that is to be a hacker whose best defence is Carbonite against other hackers. At least CB seems aware of that, as evidenced by the AHD Deva with Lightning (a "KHD" program). Personally, I would go with giving them a version of Breakwater that is less "don't lose time and orders trying to hack me" or just improve how the Comms attack affect enemy hackers.
So like a "counterspell" hacking program ? Mess starts to iterate quite fast if enemy (HTA owner) also have own AHD to counterspell the counterspell.
Well, my thoughts went in the direction of: Entire Order - Supportware Either: No ARO - as normal. ARO from AHD, anywhere on board "Targetted Denial of Service" (call it Wipeout or something). Initiate a F2F, straight WIP rolls, AHD has to win to cancel the Supportware. (maybe allow deflector MODS on one or both sides, maybe weight supportware with +3 if it's EVO or HD+ etc.) This would reveal hidden or marker state AHD troopers, thus opening them up to subsequent attack, so you'd have to weigh the benefits of cancelling supportware against the loss of defence.
AHD win against what? Most/all Supportware are automatic success. Even forcing a WIP roll at all would be a fairly massive change (especially for Keisotsu/Fusilier Hackers)
Well I thought I was pretty clear when I wrote choosing to ARO would initiate a F2F vs straight WIP, but I suppose supportware could also work like electric pulse, auto-succeed but count as rolling a 7 for the purposes of ARO/cancelling.
Not bad. I tentatively like. I think it'll incidentally give a reason to exist to White Hacking Devices provided the counter-hack counts as an attack (which it should for IMM and Stunned purposes). Small worry from potential arms race, though.
Not a particular fan as most effective adh come from camo state and they will remove their hiding to give a kinda low attempt at it (wip 13 vs a guarentee 7 is a low chance). Coupled with the only thing it hurts is 1 uncontested order, lower order count lists care while 15+ order counts are annoyed, but found the adh which could be more critical information. So low percentage + reveals camo + only hurts low order count lists if it does succeed for me is why I dont think it's a good idea.
Well, it remains your choice to reveal your AHD to try and counter the supportware or even bring a HI AHD that sits in a link in your DZ to try it instead. Against a LI list about to send a REM on a rambo, making them waste an order or two to actually deploy supportware may well be worth revealing a midfield AHD as well, or you could look at the likely attack route and choose to remain hidden to try for a better ARO. Right now it's almost never worth bringing an AHD (outside of a small selection that also pack damage programmes), so looking at adding utility seems a good idea to me.
I don't want a new program that negatively hurts LI lists while making order spam practically ignore the effects. It means that this just incentives more orders and I think that is a poor result as LI is hampered enough as is. And adding a new thing that works 30% of the time and the only thing you get is to lose them 1 order is poor. Instead, give them an aro hacking program that works against everyone, the hacker is at -3 and is damage 13 bts, if it works it gives them the stunned condition but no actual loss of life. Effectively a hacking version of flash pulse but -3 to user to make them bad at it. This way if you want to reset, you will probably succeed, but you can't do other things as well or there is a risk. And success means that model is no longer a threat. This is better imho because while it hurts LI, their increased bts of higher cost models should be helpful, but this hits war bands quite hard as there are a ton of orders that will be passing by an adh prone on a building.
You would be able to continue using the ARO each time they try to Supportware so it is potentially more orders I think uyo would have to limit it to Tag/Rem/HI/Hackers. Unless you can figure out a reason why a hacker would be able to effect a werewolf for example.
