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Access scenery items

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by Gunmage, Jan 13, 2020.

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  1. Gunmage

    Gunmage General Contact Unit

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    Does having Access trait mean the item can be opened/closed? I'm thinking about the Doorway item (the only unhackable Access item). I've had an argument recently with a person who stated that since it's called just a "doorway" it does not include a door, so it can't really be closed, and pointed to it being unhackable as an argument to his favor.

    And a second, related question - my community tends to assume that Access items that are damaged/destroyed are treated as holes in walls (i.e. "open and cannot be closed, and LoF can be drawn through them"), but rules say that damaged Scenery Items lose their functionality, and then if destroyed, they are treated as any other scenery item (as in, you get a Narrow Gate in them that does not allow LoF). Does that mean that, rules as written, one can enter Armory, damage all the doors and thus deny any entrance inside? (Well, aside from then putting them into destroyed state and creating narrow access point in them. Or doing that to the walls.)
     
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Whether Scenery Items with Access Width can be opened to closed should be discussed before deployment. It depends very much on the table.

    My meta plays that tables where the buildings have Door markers (ie widgets that represent doors which can be placed into the terrain to represent closed doors) you can open and close the doors. If the table doesn't have Doors then they don't exist.

    WRT windows. It depends on the table / player. Sometimes we play with windows as Narrow Access, sometimes we don't. Either way, we don't generally allow windows to be closed.

    Re: destroying doors.
    "If the Scenery Item or the piece of Equipment was represented by a Marker, simply remove it from play. If it was a physical piece of scenery, place a Destroyed Marker (DESTROYED) beside it."

    You should discuss whether Doors on the table are 'Markers' or a 'physical piece of scenery'. I find that generally treating Doors as markers is FAR better and the way I usually see it done.
     
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  3. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Gunmage and inane.imp like this.
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The Nordic meta is evolving towards automatic doors and I hate it. I wish CB released a more thorough set of default terrain rules based on community feedback and Designed For Infinity selection so that terrain-dependent rules such as MSV1 and Impetuous can be properly assessed during testing.

    In fact, the Finnish side of the Nordic meta is pushing to remove building interiors completely because it is causing problems with game speed and forgotten models. (Buildings that are not ruins have an imaginary roof and can be deployed inside on the top floor, shots and units can't move through such "roof", so there's still going to be some grocery store doors, but not many)

    That said, I would say that the default is that a doorway has a door only if there is a door there and that it can be opened and closed only if the door item can be opened or removed (otherwise you just move through it and can't keep it open). It takes the Short Movement Skill Operate to open/close doors (and this is the part people don't play with)

    Second question:
    Adding to what IJW just wrote; yes, if you can limit the damage to only leaving the doors Damaged and not Destroyed, you'll deny entry to anyone without the proper weapons through that door, unless it was open when Damaged
     
  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for raising this one from the grave, but there's been some local discussion regarding how to interpret the FAQ;

    Does a destroyed door qualify as open in the same way as opening it with the Operate Short Movement Skill, or does it qualify as open in the same way as a Access Point in a wall generated by a missile launcher "opens" that wall? (Foot note; when the scenery item in question is not a marker, but an actual item that can be mechanically opened)

    For reference, the local ruling was, and I hope I remember this correctly; if the door is agreed to be a marker it is removed, if the door is considered to be a piece of scenery it will have a narrow access point hole in it and will block LOF. (Whereupon all tables promptly had all doors turn into markers during The Armory because most people had planned to open doors explosively as it turned out)
     
  6. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    It’s an open doorway. Creating a Narrow Access that you can’t see through is specific to Construction Scenery Items, so basically walls.

    From Destroyed State:
     
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