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A Weapon to Surpass Metal Gear: A General Guide to Using the Avatar *Updated to ITS11: Stakeout*

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by 0rph3u5, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

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    Come on, guys... No Avatar here but THIS is a 400 points LI TAG TEAM
    Onyx Contact Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10
    UMBRA SAMARITAN Lieutenant Spitfire, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Vorpal CC Weapon. (1 | 44)
    XEODRON Red Fury, Blitzen / Heavy Pistol. (1 | 63)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    XEODRON K1 Combi Rifle, Blitzen / Heavy Pistol. (0.5 | 63)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    OVERDRON 2 Plasma Snipers / . (2 | 72)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    OVERDRON 2 Plasma Snipers / . (2 | 72)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    7 SWC | 400 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Spinnaker and 0rph3u5 like this.
  2. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    I would like to propose my version of the one-two tag punch, now with 300 points because I usually play at this level:

    Combined Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    RAICHO MULTI HMG + Heavy Shotgun, Mine Dispenser / . (2 | 94)
    [​IMG] RAICHO PILOT 2 Heavy Pistols, D-Charges, Knife. ()
    KURGAT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    TAIGHA Chain-colt / DA CC Weapon. (0 | 6)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Dangerous, but pretty awesome.
     
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  3. 0rph3u5

    0rph3u5 TAG, you're it! :3

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    Lol, love you all. May we all explode into confetti for our shenanigans :'D Since this is a tactica thread, though, gonna rein it in a bit :P

    That definitely is a MIGHTY fine list. You've got all the bases covered, but at 400 points, you should probably abandon limited insertion. The avatar + overdron is a really strong combo that can take on AROs with and without MSV, but those are your only long-range guns in the list. The rest of your guns are SMGs and combi rifle rangeband. I'd see if I could switch the Q-drone to an HMG and throw in a caliban or noctifer spitfire. Those are just my 2 cents. The seed soldier is a curious but awesome pick, though. Never thought about it, but it works as a decent, budget specialist. Might throw him on the table and see how he does. Maybe he'll be in the tactica :D

    @DaRedOne that is a friggin' badass list, but personally I would go for the overdron if I was gonna go double TAGs, especially at 300 points. The raicho doesn't really add much that the avatar can't do better except for CLOSE RANGE!?!?!? capability. I'd trade it for an overdron and use the point savings to upgrade the taigha to something with a regular order.

    Like maybe this

    Revisions
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    OVERDRON 2 Plasma Snipers / . (2 | 72)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    KURGAT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    SEED-SOLDIER (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    ÍMETRON . (0 | 4)
    Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #43 0rph3u5, Sep 5, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    Spinnaker likes this.
  4. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    Yeah I definitely see where you're coming from on a lot of those points. Taking a plasma rifle Q-Drone instead of the HMG variant was actually a conscious decision, as I was worried about models clearing through my midline and challenging the TAGs up close - all I'd need to do in order to take the HMG is cut one of the slave drones which is probably a decent move on second thought.

    The seed soldier, I feel, is a great option if you want a cheap button pusher, especially in our current era of O-12 liasons and forward observer classified cards; It doesn't have the shooting power of the malignos, shrouded, or even zerat, but I'm a big believer in the "shoot the shit out of your enemy and then run specialists forward unopposed" strategy that many PanO players will advocate. Originally I was going to use an M-Drone, but they cost the same and the seed soldier has the advantage of starting upfield - if enemy camo markers prove to be too much of an issue I'll use the M-Drone instead.
     
    0rph3u5 likes this.
  5. 0rph3u5

    0rph3u5 TAG, you're it! :3

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    That's a good idea then. Just make sure the Q-drone doesn't get outranged. If it is, thankfully you have 2 TAGs to shoot the bejesus out of them.
     
  6. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
    Warcor

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    The thing is: as I've mentioned before, TAGs usually don't want to get close, and going dual TAG you don't have room for krakots, daturazi and nox, which would help you when some dipshit comes in waving a big honkin' knife at your warmachine. The Raizot solves that problem by applying liberal use of Heavy Shotgun to the face. Sure, berzerkers are still a problem, but at least with that shotty you can fight it out with say, a ninja or a fiday.
     
  7. 0rph3u5

    0rph3u5 TAG, you're it! :3

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    U W0T M9?


    Revisions 2: Electric Boogaloo
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    AVATAR Lieutenant (Strategos L3) MULTI HMG, Sepsitor Plus / DA CCW. (3.5 | 137)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    OVERDRON 2 Heavy Rocket Launchers / . (2 | 61)
    [​IMG] STALDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0)
    KURGAT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    SEED-SOLDIER (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle, Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 14)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This is actually startlingly close to a list I would actually run.... I'm tempted... >:D
     
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  8. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    So... those N4 changes to Strategos...

    No longer relevant for limited insertion style lists, and I would also argue significantly weaker. I imagine the cost, functionality, and playstyle associated with the Avatar will end up being changed around a lot going into N4.

    Pretty anxious hearing that having just finished painting mine. Overall, I'm pretty disappointed hearing that, I really liked Strategos. The big ol' girl will need something else to keep up at this rate. But I'll keep an open mind and a bit of hope for now.
     
  9. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I assure you: the avatar is going to be ridiculously fucking hot in N4. Your biggest issue will be people coming loaded for bear to fight him because he's terrifying and they should do that.
     
    Time Bandit, WiT?, Lesh' and 2 others like this.
  10. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little nervous. My go-to strategy for Combined Army (and kind of all Infinity) for the last year or two has been based around Avatar Speculo. Its cheesy and gross, but life doesn't give me time to try anything new, just flurries of tournament related activity and six month breaks. I just jam this shit into any list and any mission and see what happens.

    I heard that strategos will involve combat group changes, and that there is some change but not a total change to how it influences deployment. Would not be surprised if the opponent gets to retain a reserve troop now. Another stealth effect on the common Avatar strategy is ARO dodge - impersonators are definitely weaker than before, as after making a strike everything nearby can ARO into positions to counter them. This is going to put some very real breaks on certain types of attack on the deployment zone, and I think Impersonators are some of the hardest hit. A stealth buff on the other hand, is that TAGs and heavies, which both are prey for Speculo and Avatar alike, are going to be more common, and there will be less spam walls and overlapping ARO to keep this strategy in check.

    If the opponent keeps reserves, then I agree that Avatar play is going to change drastically. Whether it does or does not, having +1 command token and ease of moving groups will possibly push players out of limited insertion into a small second group to take advantage of this, at the cost of losing the all in alpha strike potential.

    Assuming the strategos L3 plan is still valid, Avatar/Speculo is going to power up in a big way. My go-to Avatar/Speculo list is looking to gain 28 points and 1.5 SWC: +23/1.5 (Avatar), +5 (Malignos KHD), +2 (Speculo). I mean shit, just off the top of my head, an R Drone and an Imetron can become two Shroudeds, or something with a gun. Like, I agree with the above post, there will be more counters to Avatar and so forth post tactical window, but turning two useless cheerleaders into two quality infiltrators or an infiltrator and a gun for free is just mind-boggling.

    Got the world's first N4 satellite event happening about a week after launch so getting tense - it's hard to build a list when you don't know if the core tenant of the strategy is gonna work lol.
     
  11. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Depending on the changes we see to Strategos and Impersonation, as well as the point cuts, 2 combat groups might not be outside the realm of possibility for Avatar lists, especially with the potential Strategos 2 profile. I am curious, yet weary going into this.
     
  12. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Any word on whether Mnemotech works different than Mnemnomica? I can't seem to access it from Army. Would be great to know if the option is there to repair a KO Avatar without having to commit to chain of command too.

    Also, random question - if you were taking an Combined Army list or even an Avatar list and wanted good counters to an Avatar list, what would the go-to be?
     
    #52 WiT?, Sep 26, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  13. 0rph3u5

    0rph3u5 TAG, you're it! :3

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    *Emerges from his grotto, blinking and curmudgeonly*

    *Sees N4 Avatar profile*

    ......... o lawd.........

    If people are wondering, I WILL update the thread, it'll just take a while. We lost some strategos shenanigans, army builder is on fire and missing overdrons, kurgats, and other profiles, but we've gained a bunch as well and A-money is still, by far, the meanest TAG of all. I just gotta find the time in my grad-student schedule (ChemE Ph.D student) to get some games in and re-familiarize myself with everything. Look forward because THE LEGEND NEVER DIES.
    the_legend_never_dies_by_thefearmaster_d990xvy-fullview.jpg
    Pic credits to TheFearMaster on DeviantArt
    https://www.deviantart.com/thefearmaster/art/the-legend-never-dies-559356046
     
  14. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    So how about this?
    upload_2020-10-25_1-25-35.png

    14 total orders, an Avatar to shoot most things to death and an Overdron for everything else (and for roadblock duty). The M-Drone sensor should handle skirmishers fairly well. I'm considering swapping out the minelayer for another killer hacker and dropping one of the slave drones, as having so much of the list concentrated into two TAGs strikes me as an obvious weakspot.
     
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  15. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I've drafted up something similar but it splits the shrouded minelayer out into a libertos and a bunch of 4-5pt gribblies. I'm keen to try it - I love the idea of combining two TAGs, one with Mimetism -6, one with Albedo.
     
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  16. Spinnaker

    Spinnaker Vanguard Officer

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    Thinking about it, taking a Liberto is a pretty fantastic deal here. The loss of an order isn't too much of an issue for a 14 order single combat group, and the points saved lets me turn one of the Ikadrons into another shrouded KHD. That gets the list up to 5 camo tokens, three of which are specialists and two of which can roadblock enemy skirmishers.
     
    RobertShepherd likes this.
  17. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    You dont lose an order, that's what the extra command token is for.
     
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