Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by daboarder, Dec 17, 2017.
Ahem. Welcome to the pano forums.
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just curious is all.
not the Hyperpower
I was joking that yu Jing are regarded as ateks by pano.
Hyper power, number 1 so why try harder etc.
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Big minis are cooler. Ariadna and Haqq has S5 HIs, because they lack the technology to put the same content into S2 frames, like the cool guys do. Yu Jing supposed to be the HI faction, so their S5 HI should be something big and scary, like between HI and TAG.
I suppose it makes sense in that aspect, since we mount TAG weapons on Yan Huos and the Su-Jian... the Su-Jian.
Su-Jian is funny, because it's really close to a TAG, at least a light TAG. Has at least 2 wounds, sometimes 3, ridiculously fast, dodges like a HI, but it's weapons are not TAG grade.
Yan-Huo is a good example, it's a heavy HI with TAG weapons (HRMC, MULTI HMG), so it goes on an S5 chasis.
Yeah, durability wise it matches, or in some cases even surpases, light TAGs, can keep up with the fastest of TAGs, but it's weaponry is, at best, on the level of the lighter TAGs, for two reasons: Su-Jians don't get a piece of that +1 Damage that all other TAGs get due to being TAGs ( Since don't all TAGs get Fatality Lv1, or a pseudo version of it, by simply being TAGs now? ), and, well... a Spitfire, Panzerfaust and a LFT is pretty close to a weapon loadout you might find on some of the lighter TAGs, such as Geckos ( Heck, once you think about it, the 2x Combi Gecko is armed near identically to the Su-Jian, just that the 2x Combis have different range bands compared to a Spitfire ( But the same damage, since they get +1 Damage for being on a TAG. ) ), Seraphs ( Spitfire and a Nanopulser. ) and Anacondas ( Again, Spitfires+LFT+Panzerfausts. ).
Everybodies favorite mobile artillery pieces, really.
Fire ammo is dangerous to anything.
Spitfire has good range, especially with Su-Yian's mobility, Heavy shotgun has highish damage, AP and template, so ignores cover for no to heavy armor, and AP for really heavy armor. Not to mention BS14 + +6 range of shotgun is nice odds against nearly anything. Point is, weapons here while a bit light, still enough to hurt stuff. Also it's cheap, you can duo them, so you can bring both weapons, and your opponent can't ignore them, they'll be in their face way too fast.
Btw W2 + remote presence + NWI is W3 with the occasional W4 (when you get enough wounds in an order, you can turn on NWI on the second unconscious state), not W2-3 as I wrote above.
Considering just yesterday a Tiger neutered an Avatar into an overcosted MULTI-HMG TAG yesterday... yes, Fire ammo is dangerous, I agree.
They do still hurt enough stuff, but still, unlike TAGs, with their inate additonal Damage point making even the most lightly armed TAGs comparable to, or even surpass, the Su-Jians in raw firepower. Again, going back to the Gecko, even though it is armed with just mere Combis, that +1 Damage turns them into what is effectively a Spitfire with it's range bands dragged 8'' closer home, and while the Chain-Colt is inferior to a LFT, the Geckos Panzerfaust is factually better than the Su-Jians, due to, well, having more damage. And this costs less than the Spitfire Su-Jian.
Another example would be the Xeodron Batroids, I'd say they're armed pretty comparably to a Su-Jian. Not better armed, but I'd say they could stand as equals in a direct firefight. Panzerfaust is replaced with the Blitzen, main armaments are either a Red Fury, which on a Xeodron basically becomes a Shock Spitfire, and the MULTI-Rifle, while not as high in burst as a Spitfire, still deals equal damage AND gets some extra ammo types to play around with. And Heavy Pistols are always a nice thing.
I suppose what I'm trying to get to here is that most TAGs can compare to, or, more often, surpass the Su-Jian in weight of gunfire, but the Su-Jians greatest advantage is not being an S5 BS14 gun platform... it's the ability to be a ludicrously fast S3 HI being able to deliver said BS14 S5 HI gun platform safely and quickly to where it's needed most.
I don't think +1DAM matters too much. +1Burst is a lot more valuable, or ranges above combi range. Su-Yian has enough punch and insane mobility to deliver it (8" cautious movement anyone?), on the odd chance they have to, they even can dodge on 14.
That +1 DAM matters very much if anybody would ask me. Ofcourse, not as good as +1 burst, but I have seem TAGs, Avatars even, toppled due to their save roll being 1 short of passing.
As for ranges above combi... it depends on the table and how you use your units, I suppose. That 16'' range band isn't that bad, since it is just under the ranges of Snipers, HRL or HMGs, giving you a slight edge against those if you can get close, and it still has the 8'' +3 range band ( Though I find a lot of units tend to have other comparable or superior weaponry for such ranges. ) in the event a shotgun rounds the corner at you or you're going up against a target with a 0 or -3 8'' rangeband and your opponent has forgotten pistols can in fact be used to shoot back.
Ofcourse, that requires this odd thing called positioning.
And few units can reposition themselves quite as effectively as a Su-Jian.
This is the essence of it.
A S5 Yu Jing HI should be bringing light-TAG level awesome.
But, generally speaking, the S5 HI everyone else is putting on the table should always be chasing the Swiss Guard and Hac Tao enviously.
I love the fat1 tags. it just feels chunkier and deadlier
I wonder if CB will bake Fatality Lv1 into Tag profiles when they do their profile revist later this year, and remove it from the ITS rules. I really dislike 'invisible' rules like that, especially when the army builder doesn't tell you.
according to HellLios it is currently staying in the ITS rules for a few reasons. I expect that it will until the next time they give the base mechanics a re-work.
Also, Super, Finally got my hands on the Cutter ;)
[[Cutter Tactica Confirmed]]
Also that's a shame from a clarity purpose, but i'll bet it's in their long term plan. Fat1 was a good call on TAGs.
Bigger bullets should hurt more, after all.
Also makes them able to compete with HI better, since without that inbuilt Fat1, I'd bet there'd be quite a few people arguing for ''Why use [ insert TAG ] when you can use [ insert HI ]?''
FAT1 increases your Damage output in between 7.5% (DAM15->16 vs ARM0) and 100% (DAM14->15 vs ARM10+3) before overkill and crits are taken into account.
For the sample size I have available I've gotten 1.5 extra wounds per game on average out of it. So it's a really nice buff with quite some impact.
But arent't the TAGs undersused not because they are not "efficient enough" but because they are "neutrialized" too easily ?