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A MOment of bitterness

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Judge Dredd, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Dunno if it is used, I've only played once against IA.
    I was simply refering to Hac Tao, dunno about Rui Shi chances.
    Well this data is available since ever to most of european players (if they wish to use it), had I really wanted to obstruct the source etc. I would not make a snipped from the webpage with clear indication of source.

    And I'm breaking from MO, OSS is quite an interesting sectorial to try out all changes (it also cannot take "all nice toys" like some factions...). NCA will have shortly usable Bolts (hopefully), and Foreign Legion will require just a few proxies to run. So luckily I will have enough factions to play while my MO models gather dust on attic (and poor new Hospitallers wait to be painted).

    And yes, I'm kinda invested in MO as I consider it "primary" army (which you can see a lot of people here gravitating or having "favorite" or "original" armies). Seeing MO bad isn't exactly netting me anything, you might (or might not) seen my (imho reasonable and not over the top) approaches to change some of the MO "problematic" parts. There is no fun in "overpowered" faction, or "underpowered" opponents.
    Same goes for a faction so heavily "patched up" that its really looking like "spaghetti code".

    In general I was wondering how long we will have to wait untill thread like this will be created :D

    (It's also quite telling that VIRD is not discussed anywhere except for it's own tactics thread. Apparently people are really happy how VIRD turned out :D )
     
  2. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, getting into that range is kinda @eciu 's point.
     
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  3. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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  4. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    It's usually not that difficult, although it requires more orders. But yes, I am fully aware that some tables are just terrible in this regard but no, I do not accept his statement that you need HMG's to exit the DZ. This is blatantly false in most but all the most terrible tables.

    Alternatively, I just used the Zencha and murdered all the link goons, at which point the Kamau was easy to kill.
     
  5. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    My point is the top players don't just netlist "the best" stuff off of forums, they come up with their own things and tailor sectorials to their preferred playstyle. A lot of people here talk as if everyone is playing a linked Kamau turret while completely ignoring the possibility of a Fusilier deathstar instead. And they judge other faction by how well they deal with said Kamau turret. Apparently being able to dislodge that guy or not makes or breaks an army.
     
  6. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Well, Infinity isn't a game where you "netlist" anyway. It's usually a terrible thing to do as missions + suspected meta is of much greater importance than copy pasting lists.
     
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  7. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Would say that deployment+actual gameplay is several times more important than list.

    List has quite significant impact on results, but you can do well with bad list, while not knowing what to do with good list won't end nicely.

    And that's why Infinity is so great.
     
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  8. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    Dude, you need to read, not put words in other people's mouth and stay on topic.

    The smoke vs camo thing started because of what you said two pages ago saying camo workes as well as smoke and camo is as good as a sybiomate in response to people pointing out the benefits of smoke. Now you're on fireteam composition in the same thread without resolving anything.

    OS being able to make a core has always been there. OS making a core with a FK was something people thought should happen.

    Then you clip what I was saying about Dart and ignore what I said before about her in order to affirm what I said about her being deadly but as if you made the point independently. So let me be crystal here. Shes deadly. Shes worth her points. Shes expensive. I think shes ham fisted into MO as her background is Aresteia combatant from Acon. I dont want Koni to be a copy, but as of now he's a very expensive linkable msv combirifle.

    To step out of the rut of JSA's design, we arent very strong on the CC front to begin with. Most factions can field similar qualities of CC for less about the same price point or far less before gaining additional abilities. Many factions combine their CC with strong supporting secondary skills like smoke or camo or further augment it with additional CC skills.

    You really didnt read what I had to say on the father knight because i bring up the missile launcher. I also dont understand why you would want to link a spitfire to a ML aro piece with each clocking in at the 50 point bracket chewing up SWC. If I bring the OS with double Santiagos it's to get them a "cheap" 5 man. If I'm planning on anchoring them as ARO pieces I'm a lot less likely to expect them to survive as a 5 man to roll out with. And you're just breezing past the cost of the ML too, it's two to three times as much as an alternate OS and just as susceptible to mods, camo and smoke negating its effectiveness. A ML will costs you as much as a MSR you could link and a TOFOOS. That's a hefty consideration.
     
  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    But both definitely have their relevant places, which is the point no? You can have a TO Camo MSR and an MSR in the link, or you can go with a ML on a much tougher profile. You have options.
     
  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Everything has troubles with killing a damned Linked Kamau! Even a freaking Marut TAG!



    But is available:
    Invincible Army
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2
    HAC TAO HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 68)
    HAC TAO (Executive Order) HMG, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 69)

    4 SWC | 137 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I admit, I'd rather use other tools, but someone could take that Black Magic HMG and surprise you sometime.



    You still need to either get within 16" (can cost a lot of orders) or have a linked MSV2 sniper (costs you in army build, because I'd much rather have the KHD).
     
    eciu likes this.
  11. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    IDK I think you're blowing him waaaay out of proportions. I never seem to have trouble dealing with him (also no, the Marut will statistically use 1-2 orders on killing a fully linked Kamau).


    No, not really no. He technically is but he's so expensive on both points and SWC that he fucks over the rest of your list building to the point that he might as well not exist. I don't really care about the semantics of whether or not he can actually be taken or not.

    Or it COULD just cost me 2 orders to get me within range, that's the problem with weasel words.
    What's the point of a KHD against JSA, VIRD or any faction that's practically shit at hacking? Having a BS16 MSV2 Sniper that spurts out 3 DA shots on active turn is amazing, don't cheat yourself of the experience! IMO the KHD is best saved for the 2nd of your 2 tournament lists, so you bring one against hacking and one against heavy visual MOD's.
    You could also quote my other suggestion, which involved using a Zencha to deal with the Kamau.

    PS: Why are you liking eciu's response regarding deployment, when he's literally just repeating what I said in a different manner? Idk I just find that odd. :joy:

    PPS: @eciu WHY are you repeating why I say in a different manner? :joy::see_no_evil:
     
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  12. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Well apparently we might soon see all the CB's data regarding factions ^^

    <goes for popcorn>
     
    #212 eciu, Mar 20, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  13. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    upload_2019-3-20_23-26-9.png

    If I understood correctly those are official results of ITS10 from all over the world.

    Soooo apparently it's twice as likely to win tournament as Varuna than MO xD

    Bit for legend:
    Every pair of columns is a # placment on tournametn (so most left one is 1st place) and number of player playing given faction who took such place. Percentages are from total percentage of players who playing given faction took given place. Apparently CB does some weird calculations of sectorials/vanilla that's why percentages of sectorials do not add up to whole faction (it's too late and I'm too tired to give additional thought into this).


    So regarding the source: apparently (as far as I understood) its official CB data.
     
    #213 eciu, Mar 20, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.
  14. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    upload_2019-3-20_23-42-27.png
    Avarage Tournament Points per PanO sectorial
     
  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Oh, unit pickup rate is also available ^^
     
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  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    They are within acceptable parameters. Not everything is identically costed. ORC+Regulars have 0 access to TO Camo and Hidden deployment to complement them amongst other things MO gets access to and they don't (like multiwound KHDs that bring their own tinbots). If you want to complement your HI link with TO Camo units, then you get the less hyper efficient Magisters, but that's ok because they're costed decently enough to be viable, and it opens up your list building in different avenues.

    It's all about exploring options outside of that box you're trapping yourself in.


    Hahaha you are literally proving my point.

    It's not HI Military Orders

    It's not LI Military Orders

    It's just Military Orders. It encompasses both. The Vatican employs both forms of soldiers in their religious armed forces. Thematically, the knights were accompanied by many forms of peasantry level shitkickers out to purge heathens for god and glory, which the Order Sergeants are directly meant to represent.

    "It is quite a sight to see Sergeants on a transport heading straight for battle. While the more fervent believers chant prayers, the more mundane listen to psychomusic through their skull implants. All are harnessed to their padded acceleration seats, sharpening their bayonets and turning the cargo hold into a forest of sharp and shining blades. In those moments prior to the clamour of battle, Sergeants smile with pious joy to encourage the rookies and hide their eagerness to fight and kill as soon as they jump off the vehicle."

    Order Sergeants are part of the sectorial's theme of armed, religious, nutjobs. If you don't like them that's fine, but don't pretend they aren't part of the theme because they very much are.


    They still can, you just refuse to look at those list archetypes that can do it.


    That I can't help you with. I do agree the Seraph should have an LT profile for it. But hey, at least your TAG got buffed in Third Offensive so silver linings I guess.


    Well I've been telling you over and over to exploit free access to highly cost efficient hidden deployment they have to lay traps and bamboozle your opponents as just one thing you can do with them. Try starting there.



    Which site is this stuff from?
     
    #216 Triumph, Mar 21, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  17. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Apparently some ITS data was left exposed, and someone found a way to crawl it. I don't want to say much else. I'll vouch for eciu that the data is true, but he's pulling something out of context without normalizing it for playerbase counts. That said, after today, it is abundantly clear MO is the most under-performing sectorial in the game.
     
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  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I can't see anything from that data. Just player counts. It's pretty hard to say accept this interpretation of statistics while hiding the statistics from view.
     
  19. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    I agree, he's going off the wrong set of data to prove his point (which we have discussed since he made those comments). I'm not going to discuss it further here.
     
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    So what do we need, avarege TP per sectorial ?