Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by toadchild, Jan 24, 2019.
Which is unfortunate, since some of them even have an SWC tax.
..and that's the reason why I think Umbra weren't meant to be as ubiquitous as you think. To be fair, only the Legate has an SWC tax (and even then, only one of the two profiles actually pay extra SWC for Lt skill), but the only other profiles in Onyx that don't cost SWC for an Lt are the Nexuses (and the Suryat if you want to include an HMG Lt. in that list).
It seems to me that the intent was to make either Nexuses or Umbra the Lts. And, frankly, the main reason people don't use Umbra more as Lt.s is shock ammo (or rather, the ubiquity of it). 40+ points is a high price to pay for a Lieutenant so fragile in this meta.
That said, I think not adding any NCO profiles to Onyx was a mistake I hope they rectify in the next wave of updates.
Yes, and you don't want to pay a lot of points/swc for an expensive lieutenant that you can't use (because using your lieutenant for anything is far riskier than CB thinks, I wager).
I think more worthwhile would be putting CoC on some of the Nexus loadouts - would make fluff sense, with the Umbra as leaders of OCF and the Nexus their button men. And it would give CA some CoC, which would be real useful considering that's the specialist of choice for some missions now.
A hundred times this.
I also think that there’s a middle ground between zero aspects and open slather in OCF. It seems like a perfect fit for a skiavoros LT option both fluff and ruleswise. AVA 1 skiavoros would seem right to me; leave the HI aspects for generic CA (although an anathematic XO would be cool as hell).
I actually feel like the Skiavoro (and Avatar) are the best of the EI aspects, so IDK, maybe that'd be too easy? If I had a Skiavoro in Onyx, though, that'd be amazing.
Anath with executive order would be fantastic, and totally suited to it's aesthetic and role as a sneaky forward commander.
Fluff is malleable; they could have justified any troops they chose to include.
I almost wish there was some variant profile for the Anathematic that played into it's deadly-looking stab tendrils, but literally every similar profile has taught us that there's no way for it to get good CC on top of the rest of the kit without totally blowing out its cost.
Personally I would love to see an aspect sectoral although currently there are not enough troop types to make a decent sectoral.
Currently I believe definite inclusions for an aspect sectoral would be the Avatar, Anathematic, Charontid, Skiavoro, Overdrone, Xeodrone, Unidrones, Dr Worm, Slave drones, Ikadrones, Imetrons as well as Q, T, R, M and E drones,
Troops that would be probably included would be Nexus Operatives, Ko Dali, Umbra Legates and Samaritans as well as Specialist operative Kerr Nau.
Possible inclusions would be Bit And Kiss as well as Gakis and pretas.
This collection of profiles would lead to a very limited number of tactical options. There is a heavy weighting of expensive troops, nothing that can deploy forward of your line only one viable link team option limited camouflage options, no smoke and a general dearth of fancy toys. What toys there are (camo, msv, septisor) are generally found on the most expensive models and therefore can be used mostly in a either or manner.
There would need to be a lot of new profiles brought out before an aspect sectoral would be viable and at the moment it would seem that CB's focus is primarily on the Shas. As a consequence an aspect centred sectoral may be several years away .
In saying that I must reiterate how much I want to see not only an aspect sectoral but more aspects as well. There has not been a new aspect released since n3 dropped.
We got Unidrones and nexus with onyx and they are cool Personally I would like to see the ei aspects and the like expanded upon. They have one of the best background stories of any faction in any war game and a really great aesthetic to boot.
So on the subject of this back during Kurage Crisis, I was talking to Magnonus about the skunksworks project and he asked whether I wanted a custom sectorial, having all my background and reports based on a single Aspect unsuprisingly called Graviton based on subjugation through terror and misinformation warfare I ended up coming up with this:
Spoiler: Dark Star Compact Terror maniple
A force tailored around surprise and ruthless execution, the violence of umbra the most psychotic of the morat forces and the boogie men for the shasvastii augment the Ur warmachine which is putting into practice the experience gained in Tohaa space.
Unit Ava Fireteams
Unidron : Total : Core, special
Rodok: 2 : -
Shrouded: 2 : -
Malignos: 1 : -
Speculo Killer: 1 : -
Daturatzi: 2 : Duo, Special
Medtech : 1 : -
Aswangs: 2 : -
Yaogat : 2 : Special
Rasyat : 1 : -
Ko-Dali : 1 : -
Nexus operatives : 5 : core
Maakrep Trackers : 3 : Haris/Triad
Umbra Samaritain: 2 : special, Harris
Umbra Legate : 2 : Special, Duo
Gorgos^ : 1 : -
Overdron : 1 : -
Avatar : 1* : -
Charontid : 1* : Special
Skiavorros : 1* : Special
Aspect Graviton : 1* : -
M Drone : 1 : -
R Drone : 2 : -
T Drone : 1 : -
E Drone : 1 : -
Q Drone : 1 : Special
Ikadron : 2 : Special
Kerr nau : 1 : Counts as a nexus
Bit + Kiss : 1 : -
Slave drones : 2 : -
*A Dark Star Compact force may only feature 1 Aspect (Skiavorros, Charontid, Anathematic or Avatar)
^ This is just because I sepsitorised a Gorgos during flamestrike and really want to use him
Core: Ur support node : 1 Q-drone*, 1 Ikadron, and 3 Unidrons
Core: Honour guard : 1 Skiavorros or Charontid and 2 Umbra legates
Harris: Umbra taskforce: 1-3 Umbra Samaritans/legates
Harris: hunter squad : 2 Yaogat and 1 umbra legate or samaritan.
Duo: 1 Umbra legate + 1 daturatzi witch soldier
*Yes I'm well aware that a linked Q-drone is next level BS hence the restrictive and Drone only team, could feasibly be an M or T
The whole basis being a sectorial which is not OCF so it loses out on certain benefits and replaces it generally with more psychotic elements or units based on infiltration or special forces paired with an aspect
Also the character aspect which was a customised anthe:
Spoiler: Aspect Graviton
Mov 4-4 CC 20, BS 13, Ph 13, Wip 16, Arm 5, BTS 6, W 2, S6, AVA 1 (char)
Skills: G:Mnemonica, CH: TO camo, V:No wound incapacitation, Counter intelligence*
Aspect Graviton LT Hacker (EI killer hacking device, upgrade : Oblivion)
Plasma rifle, Nanopulser, Pistol, Vorpal Ccw
cost about 95pts 0.5swc
*Yeah, like this is getting used in a list with two combat groups
Just have one aspect per sectorial. Charontid for Morats, Anathematic for Onyx, etc.
That way you can have an aspect in the sectorials but still have incentive to play Vanilla.
Please no. While I would accept (not like) aspects in Onyx or even a new, aspect focused Sectorial, I very much don't want Aspects in MAF.
That would just open up stupid minmax builds like 1 Charontid+Hungries+Daturazi to blanket the table in smoke, then move up the charontid. And honestly I'm kinda pissed off at gimmicky minmax builds.
Well, that was just an example. Maybe Skiavoros would be better?
There is the fact that the Morat skill makes a large chunk of the G:M skill redundant (or would it be that the G:M skill would make the Morat skill redundant...)
Either way, you'd be overpaying for something in an Aspect MAF list.
Part of what makes MAF and SEF work is that they are specific to the particular species, and I don't think diluting that by adding aspects as "HQ" troops would serve the well. And part of the reason I assumed that Onyx would have a heavy focus on Aspects is probably that I was still in that mindset. I think CB felt a bit trapped by that design decision, and I wholeheartedly support making a sectorial that has more mixed troops - it's just unfortunately not a sectorial I ended up wanting to play. And I don't specifically demand that a hypothetical future "aspect" sectorial would be strictly limited to yellow-badged troops, but it's definitely a theme I enjoy and would like more support for at some point.
I mean it would basically be a Hegemony force at that stage. Not a bad thing by any means.
You always get the feeling that the EI has more forces waiting in the wings for when it needs some real firepower, a bit like in Third Offensive when an Ur vessel is finally committed and by the sounds of it just bulldozes it's way through the blockade.
I wouldn't feel differently about MAF if they added an Aspect. MAF already has plenty of drones that are shared among the CA sectorials. Dr Worm has always bugged me as it is found everywhere. These troops are typically part of MAF lists. So I already feel that disconnect. I suppose you could argue there's a difference when it's the Lt. But if MAF had the option of including an Aspect because the EI sometimes likes to oversee their operations, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
EDIT: What would be cool is if the EI created an Aspect in the Morat or Shas image. A larger Daturazi Aspect would rock!
I really want some Daturazi themed HI for morats sometime soon. However, I do not want EI Aspects on Morat or Shas. Ever.
The reason I say for this is that both these sectorials aren't exactly friendly with the EI. Morats had to be browbeaten into submission and most of them are not happy about it, while Shas only joined the Combine out of pragmatism and would leave in a heartbeat if they thought it would be better for them. Adding an EI aspect to their sectorial would undermine this separatist angle for both armies.