Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by toadchild, Jan 24, 2019.
The REMs are the only good profiles in Aleph starter. Deva Hacker??? Naga Sniper???
I think you will see a 2-player Box at GenCon with Tohaa and Shavastii in it.
I think the aspects fit the Onyx feel but I would only add one or two of them. Like Skiavoro or/and Anathematic.
The more I think about it, the more I don't think aspects belong in Onyx from a gameplay perspective. One of the biggest weaknesses Onyx has is LoL. An aspect in Onyx would completely mitigate that weakness. Also, from a fluff perspective, I don't really see aspects being part of the first contact force, as they seem to be reserved for the more overt battles.
I don't see any reason Aspects need to be restricted to vanilla. Vanilla's appeal, to me, is all the unique combinations available. I'm a huge fan of all Morats, Umbra, Fraacta, and the Overdron. I can't play that combination without vanilla. Is it nice that there are unique profiles in vanilla? Sure. Do I need them to enjoy playing vanilla? No.
For anyone who feels Vanilla loses something if Aspects were in a sectorial, it would also come with a new way to play Aspects. I really can't see that being so bad.
@toadchild Keep hoping, you never know. I'm still hoping for more Daturazi options or characters. Having Raktorak's as wildcards is nice from a gameplay point of view. But unfortunately I dislike it from a thematic point of view. It just feels like oil and water. So i tend to avoid that combo. Same for Hungries and a Raktorak. Kornak actually makes far more sense to join a Dat fireteam with his profile being what it is.
I actually disagree with the notion that Raktoraks joining hungries or datz makes no sense. Raktoraks are supposed to be mid-tier officers, while Oznats and their pets are explicitly off the military chain. The Raktorak could be there to rein them in and remember them that they're supposed to be following orders and not doing their thing, as a huntress will tend to do.
For the Daturazi, I see it as a bit of the above, plus the officer maybe teaching a cadre of younger recruits? A lot of new and upcoming morats join the daturazi for fast ascension, so it makes sense that a canny officer would want to keep an eye on them. I'd love to see Kornak get to join them, though. If only because it gives cool options.
On the topic of Aspects, I think I want to see them buffed first, before they're included in any sectorial. These guys can feel severely underwhelming (I watched an Anathematic get punked by a Kaeltar yesterday, it was sad) and they're super expensive even for their admittedly good kits. If anything, I'd love to see a retool of them before they're allowed to join any sectorial.
I think my take there is that the creation of a new sectorial would be the time that these units are most likely to get a significant retune.
For example, if the Anath is going to be more lightly armoured and have lower BS than the Charon, it should gain some benefits in mobility and agility. Give it 6-2 - or 6-4! - and climbing plus, for instance. It's already got a higher focus on close ranged weaponry (Spitfire vs HMG), so double down on that and also give it a Heavy Shotgun profile, maybe a Pulzar or a Zapper.
I might have misunderstood, but it's exactly as heavily as armoured as the Charon. Also they've all got nanopulsers.
6-2 MOV would be interesting but it's already a staggeringly expensive profile (albeit usually worthwhile).
My mistake, you're right.
And yeah, it is staggeringly expensive - for a 4-4 HI unit that can't forward deploy or infiltrate and only has short ranged weapons. Just doesn't seem fit for purpose, you know?
To be fair, TO will get it pretty far up the board with little risk if you really need it to. Having to spend the orders for it hurts, but it is your Lt, is it not?
Yeah, it's a bit mixed. I've been playing it lately and I'm actually pretty happy with how the overall kit synergises, but it took a while to get that point. The focus on deadly short range combined with a marker state is a strong synergy, and it's one of the stronger sepsitor platforms for that reason - it has capacity to get close, and unlike the avatar once it gets there if the sepsitor forces a dodge, it can engage with a plasma weapon in good range rather than a HMG likely in bad range.
It does need orders to overcome the relatively average speed and lack of forward deployment, though. The rest of the combat group around it tends to very pretty thin on the ground.
Apropos of the above, I ran into spectacular failure after spectacular failure with the Sphinx but have found much better results with the cheaper but much less mobile Anathematic. I speculate this is mostly because of how much better Plasma is than basically any other ammo type you'll find on a burst 3 or above weapon. Nothing quite compares.
Recently I've been experimenting with running it not as the Lt. Good results for two reasons; firstly, it maximises the value of hidden deployment, and secondly it gives access to the sepsitor profile.
However in scenarios that warrant the hacking device, yes, I agree that it should probably be the lieutenant which helps with mobility.
Whilst 6_4 movement would be cool the anathematic is fine as he is.
I have pulled off some classic rambo runs with mine usually in the second turn after I have dealt with the majority of my opponents long range aro pieces. T.O. Camouflage combined with high bs and plasma allows him to engage most foes even at inopportune ranges without too much trouble.
If you want a fast moving t.o. Camouflaged murder machine might I suggest a sphinx?
I've run the Sepsitor profile a couple of times with interesting results. If you don't hidden deploy it folks tend to assume it's your Lt. That is until you reveal and bang a DAM16 Sepsitor on them.
Enlightening a pair of Ninjas greatly aided my cause.
I only feel comfortable doing this on specialist-light missions though because if I'm sinking 80+ points into a model when I need specialists then it has to pull it's weight which means the defaults hacker Lt profile.
Agree. And that's an interesting double-bluff with the 'this model couldn't possibly have a sepsitor' that I think I'd be a bit uncomfortable relying on because to be honest I don't think I'd make that connection if you deployed it as a marker against me and I play Combined!
I've had three games with the Sepsitor profile and one with the EIHD in the last couple weeks. Best performances with the Sepsitor were when it snagged a Naga and an Asura Lt Lvl2 (!) in the same game (frankly, this was lucky; the Asura has a fifty fifty chance of passing her BTS even when she decided to accept the risk and engage me with suppressive fire), and then again when it went ham across the board and made it to a rooftop with an entire fusilier + Kamau link team, about half of which subsequently saw the glory of the evolved intelligence and the remainder of whom ate plasma.
That second game was actually the best performance for the list overall because my Nexus hacker managed to possess the Cutter, meaning I had more than 150pts of enemy models at my behest over the course of the game - which if I wasn't already sure, would one hundred percent convince me I was playing the right faction.
This is some excellent model theft!
Sepsitors are a particularly terrifying weapon.
Speaking of double bluffs I do often move a Sphinx 4-4 for a few orders to suggest it might be an Anathematic instead.
If people aren't super familiar with the faction they are close enough in points for the ruse to survive a casual glance of the table.
I don't see an advantage in deploying the Sepsitor Ana on the table during deployment. You're trading hidden deployment for potentially misleading your opponent about your Lt plus one order. How does that work with the Lt roll? Even if my opponent believes the Ana is my Lt, is that any more valuable than having my opponent not know where I've deployed a large chunk of my points? Let alone what those points are in terms of troopers.
When it comes to bluffing, I only go as far as making multiple lists where the courtesy list profiles and potential order count don't give anything away. That way my opponent doesn't know if I have the Ana in HD or multiple drop/HD troopers instead, like the example below. I think it's important to not be too predictable. Onyx can do this well with the Sphinx's higher point value and greater AVA Fraacta plus Noctifiers.
GROUP 1 1
ANATHEMATIC Sepsitor, Plasma Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 88)
2 SWC | 88 Points
GROUP 2 3
FRAACTA Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
FRAACTA Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)
NOCTIFER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
1.5 SWC | 88 Points
GROUP 3 3
NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
FRAACTA Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
FRAACTA Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 28)
1.5 SWC | 88 Points
Open in Infinity Army
Yeah, but the question is if that weakness is an intentional balancing tool, I think not, I think it's just an unintended consequence of how they built the faction. The thought was originally that Umbra lts would be ubiquitous, rather than the nexus specialist lt that just hides. CB's design team isn't always in touch with how the game is played.
I have to imagine CB intended Umbra's to be the common Onyx Lt's as well. Personally, I think Umbra's fill the Lt role adequately. But I can certainly see why others shy away from them. Regardless of what was intended, or the perceived strength and weaknesses of Onyx, I see no reason Aspects couldn't be part of Onyx. Whether that's from a game play or thematic perspective. I can only see a few minor issues with each that could easily be remedied. Or frankly ignored.
While we’re talking about Lieutenant loadouts, I do really wish HSN3 had given the Skiavoro HD+ the option to be Lieutenant. I would play that profile in a heartbeat.