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15 orders USARF Listbuilding is Un-fun or Boring or a Frustrating Puzzle

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Nimlothautle, Sep 15, 2020.

  1. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
    Warcor

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    I will say, one thing that I have found appealing about both my USARF and Onyx is that I still know what's going on! I can whip up Onyx lists just fine still, and USARF lists, but damn if I know where to even begin on vanilla CA, Bakunin, or any of my NA2 factions, lol. I think most of our experience with both USARF and Onyx is very transferrable to N4, where I feel like I'm starting over again with my other factions.
     
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  2. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    It’s an AP Sniper Rifle. But Army is bugged.
     
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  3. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    If they really got rid of guided traktor muls are worthless now.

    My argument is that the faction needs something that can plug the gaps. Right now its lopsided. All cheap units. All arm. No synergistic abilities. All of those are now the worst attributes to have in a faction it seems. I believe a lot of our units compete with each other as well. We also don't really have a niche setting us apart anymore; just set up to be weaker, but cheaper TAK.

    A MM unit in the 35 point range could have helped that. Maybe Marksmanship instead of mimitism or X-Visors to match their NVGs. Specialized units shouldn't be locked behind a character wall.

    A full auto BJ would have been neat as well.

    Also, I am a little butt hurt Foxtrots still cost 2 SWC.

    Grunt Snipers are supposed to be AP Snipers now; that was where the two points went I guess. I am okay with this change.
     
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  4. Knauf

    Knauf Transhumanist

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    please delete, wrong thread
     
  5. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    The sad thing is, we are not going to get a proper rework. From now on it's going to be, band aid after band aid, like with MRRF. It's going to be like this for years to come in a stagnating situation. A random mercenary profile here a random minor buf to minute men there, while the faction sinks to the bottom.

    Miniatures are expensive, I would like to see equal treatment for once, instead of reasons to not play with them.
     
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  6. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    I thought that as well. The following the one sectorial at a time thing is annoying. And for some reason they keep adding more sectorials instead of returning to old ones. It feels like we were band-aided again and just got hit worst by general nerfing of Arianda's play style. (TAGs and HI in, cheap bargin units outs). Because of this, we are looking at CHA post kosmo and then MRRF next year. We probably won't see a proper update until 2022 if we are lucky.
     
  7. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide Thank you for your compliance.
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    Anyone else pick up on Grunt Infiltrators not being forced to infiltrate over the half way line? 24" up the board with no roll, yes please! Less likely to land in front of the enemy, but I would much rather not make a roll!
     
    #87 TheDiceAbide, Sep 27, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
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  8. LoganGarnett

    LoganGarnett Well-Known Member

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    Aand the Infiltration profile seems to be linkable now.
     
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  9. iyaerP

    iyaerP Well-Known Member

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    I think the worst part about this stupid fucking 15 model limit is that when I'm trying to list build and I am a few points over or a few points under, I can't just add a cheap unit or trim one model down to a cheaper profile and then add something, I have to trim one thing down and then find something else to upgrade to a more expensive profile that fits that gap.

    And if I can't do that, then I need to either rework the entire list, or just accept that I'm going to be playing a game at 292 points.
     
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  10. Mask

    Mask Well-Known Member

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    Imho the worst things in the reworked usarf are:
    Foxtrot lgl profile removed
    Minuteman garbage as before
    Blackjack more expensive apparently just for +2 on the second move... Take a look at the ratnik in comparison... he gets 4 points discount and receives the same changes in stats as blackjack but also gain a flammemspear +1b and ap spitfire +1b to replace and improve the lost double molotoks... How could this be possible?????

    There is something I missed??

    Mask
     
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  11. Yvain

    Yvain Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you are absolutely right. Not to continue being negative, but I feel like that is not priced right. Like yes its powerful, but it seems very cheap for that advantage. Like if you make something OP it messes with internal balance and makes units less viable. -

    My intitial reaction is there doesn't seem to be much reason to ever bring a rifle grunt. We still have no shortage of SWC and can't bring that much cheap infantry due to slots. Will have to see how this plays out.
     
  12. McKaptain

    McKaptain Well-Known Member

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    I have been writing list fairly compulsively for USARF since Friday. I think I finally found one that works for my play style and fixes one of the regular problems I had with them.

    One of my main issues was that the Grunt Sniper is a bargain ARO piece in the link, but seldom lived past first opponent active phase due to the stacking of mods etc.

    I found that I would then have three link members left over that were not overly combat effective. I could put a MM in there but the +1B wasn’t enough to tackle a dedicated ARO piece.

    I also ran a Marauder Haris: Rosie, Molotok, And the HFT Haris profile.

    WEAKNESSES: If the two grunt snipers died, Rosie wasn’t enough to bring them up to full strength if I back filled her into the core. Also, the Marauders has to hide turn one because they were not good ARO pieces. They also only had the one specialist of Rosie.

    NOW: I’m going to try running the Grunt Core as follows: APHMG NCO MM, Grunt lt. Grunt Paramedic (because those got way better) and the x2 snipers. Put the MM on the left flank. Snipers in the middle, extra grunt on right.

    Then I’ll take Rosie UKR and Sniper Marauder as a Haris. They go on the right side with Rosie and UKR fairly close to the x2 grunts.

    Now, even if all the sniper ARO pieces are killed in top of turn one by my opponents active turn, I can still reforge a link with the two grunts, Rosie and UKR. Maybe 5 of the grunt sniper lived. The MM can then break off and work up the flank.

    The rest of the list has motorized 112, two Foxtrots FOs, Foxtrot Sniper, Dozer, Wardriver, WarCor. So still full 15 slots and all the specialists.
     
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  13. McKaptain

    McKaptain Well-Known Member

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    Tweaked the list some more and got it up to 18 orders 5.5SWC and 300pts even.

    gTAAEFVTQVJGIFN0YW5kYXJkICCBLAIBCgGA6AEHAAKA5gEFAAOA5gEFAASA5gEIAAWA5gEJAAaD3gEBAAeDCQEDAAiC1QEEAAmBAAECAAqA5gEGAAIFAYDrAQgAAoDrAQgAA4UEAZKZAASBCQECAAWC8AGKDQA=
     
  14. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Now thats a strong looking list. I like it a lot. Love how great a buff they gave to Unknown Ranger. He feels strong enough to outclass the Vet Kazak in Vanilla Ariadna, as long as you got other HMGs for long range firepower. Its so odd to think that CB buffed UKR into a rival to the Vet Kazak. Pretty crazy.

    Also, I LOVE that Marauder sniper has +1B, thats amazing.
     
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  15. Shrooms

    Shrooms Well-Known Member

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    nvm.
    Been doing some list building. Grunt link + Marauder Haris was always my preferred build. That still works, and has seen improvements.
    We probably have to take a Character now but I used to take the UKR when everyone said he was bad, so I won’t lose sleep there (although I will need to swap the gun on his back from the rifle to an AP spit now).
    Sore about missed opportunities on the Blackjack, would have liked to have seen +1dam +1 B, to properly represent the mini and to support list builds with lots of cheap stuff - please CB give this awesome mini the profile it deserves- would like an excuse to field two.
    Sore also about loss of Foxtrot GL, but biased there because I converted one. With new range bands it might not be all that good anyway.
     
    #95 Shrooms, Sep 28, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  16. Nimlothautle

    Nimlothautle Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is nice and the infil grunts also don't warn they can't be core fire team, which is likely a bug, but Rules as Written amirite. A five man infil core is fun, but more practically, failed infils can be put in your core link when deployed on table edge. Another unmentioned pick up is that Van Zant and the Airborne rangers kept MA2, which is effectively N3's MA3, (AR aren't in sectorial army yet because of a bug, but they are in vanilla.) AND both units kept stealth and got cheaper. Silent Knifing dreams are dead though, not that they worked in practice.

    I still maintain that 15 orders isn't MY idea of how USA should play and they are paying the price for the sins of cheap warbands elsewhere, but I definitely won't deny that USA looks GREAT this edition. TA and NCO in my Core link, UKR ranger and Van Zant Buffed, Airborne ranger buffed, +1B Marauder Sniper, MSV1 smoke buff, cheaper desperados (?!), SWC free LT grunts for easier list building, Hardcases are now basically 12 point deployable mines with Decoy :D.
     
  17. Cabaray

    Cabaray Well-Known Member
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    What @Nimlothautle said, I see the same positive changes. So I do not think that Usarf is neglected since they have some useful changes.

    I do see things that I would love to be changed:

    I would love to see the Grunt, Marauder and Minuteman being like a Pokemon evolution track form each other. The Grunt as the basic starter (like they are right now), Marauder adding BS, WIP, the dogged and forward deployment (like they are right now), And the Minuteman while loosing its adventurous forward deploying, gaining more BS a heavier weapon load out, armor and NWI. So I would love to see a more expensive Minuteman unit but being semi-2 wound. to truly earn the HI description. I love to pay 30 points base for a Minuteman that is a bit tougher then he is now and truly distance himself from the Marauder.

    And a TAG (for every Ariadna faction btw). as a collector I would love to see what a Ariadna TAG would look like. the mythical RM-100.

    Then you have two more expensive but capable units that can compete and fill out the roster, giving US more options to build lists.
     
    #97 Cabaray, Sep 29, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
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  18. cazboab

    cazboab O12 prisoner 627

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    I'd almost Like to see it as sort of the F35 of tags, one decent idea that's being reworked to fill rolls it would be cheaper to buy a specific airframe for.
    EG the RM100 as designed(the TAK version) is a well armoured, mobile, fire support unit. The RM100A (USARF) trades mobility for firepower, the RM100C(CHA) is more expensive than it needs to be because of the extra tessium armour plateing, the RM112(Merovingia) has a paramedic pilot/passenger and the RM100E(kosmo) is the TAK version with stuff removed to fit the crew's EVA gear....
     
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  19. Camo Token

    Camo Token Member

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    I'd love to see the TAG to be a walker, not a humanoid mecha like others. Something straight out of Mechwarrior. Bigger than Ratnik / Blackjack, smaller than Maghariba. Not very agile, but sturdy.

    Something in the vein of Marauder IIC.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    Is the 4-2 MOV for Grunts official or a typo? Asking for a cola-drinking friend.
     
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