Greetings, Zero Visibility Zone has the following line as part of its effects. "Inside a Zero Visibility Zone, Troopers can only declare Skills that do not require LoF or that require them to be in base to base contact with their target." This line prevents the declaration of certains skills while you are inside the ZvZ, but doesn't care if you LoF goes through (for the purpose of the declaration) This means that the ARO bait with MSV1 + Smoke in ZoC still works, as long as the target trooper is inside the ZvZ. I think ZvZ should treat declarations through the as as they declare declarations from inside to make the game more consistent.
Since your proposed change keeps the MSV ARO baiting intact... ... maybe fix the declaration part instead? "Inside a Zero Visibility Zone, Troopers can only perform Skills that do not require LoF or that require them to be in base to base contact with their target." Unless your specific goal is to keep that interaction alive. Further problem with the Zero Visibility Zone rules you left out: so here's the whole thing: A peemptive BS Attack declaration would declare his BS Attack on the basis of the specific exception that someone will be attacking him. Therefore the BS Attack he declares is already established to not require LOF. You're using the ZVZ rules to declare a no LOF BS Attack on the basis of being the target of an Attack during resolution, which will never require LOF. Why is that different from preemptively declaring BS Attack against someone starting their Order in Total cover? Because using ZVZ rules, you know with certainty that your BS Attack will not need LOF at declaration, therefore is not a requirement. Meeting requirements isn't necessary till resolution, so should be perfectly fine if preemptive declaration of AROs is here to stay.
I don't care which way the interaction goes to be honest. I'd just like both to be the same, whether it be both can be declared or both can't be declared. If I had to make a judgement call purely on balance... I think I'd rate the possible options like this... Reactive player can do any ARO, except direct template weapon ARO bait like it was, reactive player can only Dodge Reactive player can do any ARO I think being able to deny the direct template weapon by using MSV + Smoke is very important for balance, otherwise placing the smoke and paying for MSV and outpositioning your opponent is a lot of effort for not much benefit.
Gotta be honest that line of argumentation has no basis at all. Hellois just told us the Intent is to remove ARO baiting. The same interaction does not work if you do it outside of ZOC - but you can still eat the template, Chainrifles are 10.5" or something like that. You get a -6 MOD on regular BS Attacks, that's plenty of an advantage. In fact it's the same advantage you'd otherwise get from Mimetism (-6) on top of being the counter to Mimetism. So a MSV does not just counter mimetism (which does fuckall vs DTWs too) but should also be able to counter templates on top? Which part about removing the ability for the other side to meaningfully oppose a MSV BS Attack in ZOC is "very important for balance"? Should my Cutter be immune to DTWs when he can reduce BS to 0 too?
I think that... Paying for MSV Paying for smoke Bringing the MSV trooper in ZoC of an opponent Throwing smoke to cover your MSV trooper Should have a significant advantage. I think being forced to Dodge versus it with no penalties is perfectly fine. But if also allowed a BS Attack to go through that would also be good. But I think that DTW being able to just completely disregard this is too strong. DTW are some of the strongest weapons in the game and smoke is how close-range unit are able to mitigate their impact. If your opponent did not have DTW, spending all the ressources to drop the smoke and bring the MSV trooper would be a waste of orders tbh. You could just walk up to them and gun them down. The trick is used to make sure your fragile MSV trooper isn't completely trivialized by a template. The cutter argument is completely irrelevant here, did your cutter loot MSV1 from a panoply?
MSV does plenty as is, especially MSV1 in Links. Smoke does a metric fuckton of heavy lifting for a laughable pricetag, almost anywhere it is accessible it's in the list on multiple pieces. Smoke + MSV is not priced in. You have Smoke and MSVs? You pay the same for both as without. You have no MSVs? You pay the same for your Smoke as without. You have no Smoke? You pay the same for your MSVs as without. So a free interaction of two powerful tools needs to exist in the game without any reasonable counterplay because... ? It's not like the Smoke + MSV trooper doesn't have the choice to not engage within template range, or not try his stupid trick against the guy with a gun that doesn't need to aim.
There is a difference between "reasonable counterplay" and having literally the same option as if the opponent didn't have them. I think MSV is a pretty mediocre piece of equipment for the price cost, and template weapons are one of the most powerful tool that exist in the game. So I really don't mind the conjunction between MSV + Smoke + Positioning to be able to counter templates. But like I said, I don't particularly care either way balance-wise. I think MSV + Smoke in ZoC is a pretty insignificant interaction that is blown way out of proportion. I just wise rule-wise it was consistent.
I find it preferable to have literally the same options regardless if the same MSV dude would have shot me from 8.1" or 7.9" away. DTWs do what DTWs do and while that's pretty good, with the N4 Shotgun change everyone has access to it fairly equally with no one being restricted or left out. If you think MSVs are too expensive in N4 I don't know how to reply. My experience differs, I found MSVs mostly lead to automatically useable troops with the rare exception of another option (mostly also MSV troop) outshining them into becoming obsolete or a chassis so bad/restricted it's beyond saving.
